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05-16-16 07:23PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Mar 2009
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USA Olympic Qualifications Criteria

I just looked at the US Olympic Team Trials qualifications criteria. Here’s a summary:

In 2016-17 you need to finish in the top 5 at the World Championships.
Question: The USA World Championships representative for 2016-17 is not sufficient to qualify for the trials? They need to finish top 5? What’s the rationale?

In 2016 -17, you need to finish in the top 15 OOM OR Year to Date top 15 OOM.
Question: Why was the criteria set so high? Prior to 2015-6, has any USA curling team finished in the top 15 for OOM?

Statistics: 2016 YTD OOM Top 15 for Men: 11 Canadian Teams, 1 Scottish Team, 1 Swedish Team, 1 Norwegian Team, and 1 USA Team(11th)
Statistics: 2016 Overall OOM Top 15 for Men: Same stats with Team USA 14th

What’s the logic by setting the criteria so high?

The final way to get into the USA Olympic Team Trials is by way of “discretionary selection”.

The qualification criteria have been set so high that it is VERY conceivable that no team will qualify by these criteria. Which then allows ALL the decisions to the “discretionary selection”. Is that how we want to determine our USA Olympic curling team?

Why didn’t they set some qualification criteria that was achievable? Do these criteria promote or discourage competitive curling in the USA? And don’t tell me yes because of the “discretionary selections”. We already know ALL those slots are going to HPP teams.

I’ll say it again. Do some work! Give us a program that serves athletes rather than this program that has select athletes serving one person.

But…. Maybe nobody cares anymore.

If I didn’t have at least $50,000 for my team to compete, I don’t think I would even bother trying to qualify next year.

Do we want a healthy competitive curling program in the USA? It doesn't seem like it.

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05-16-16 11:14PM
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dbsdbs
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Re: USA Olympic Qualifications Criteria

quote:
Originally posted by fanofcurling

Do we want a healthy competitive curling program in the USA? It doesn't seem like it.



Guess it depends how you define "a healthy competitive curling program." According to the USCA that means winning medals at worlds and especially Olympics. And the USCA definition is the only one that matters.

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05-17-16 01:01AM
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SPMFromPCC
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They want people playing a metric f$@#-ton to pursue the Olympic goal, which is not wrong. Only problem is that there's about seven people in the entire country who actually have the capability to do so.

Developing a healthy competitive curling program isn't the goal, unfortunate though that may be. Identifying the absolute elite is the be-all and end-all. Everyone else can quit curling forever as far as they are concerned.

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05-17-16 08:35AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: May 2015
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quote:
Originally posted by SPMFromPCC
They want people playing a metric f$@#-ton to pursue the Olympic goal, which is not wrong. Only problem is that there's about seven people in the entire country who actually have the capability to do so.

Developing a healthy competitive curling program isn't the goal, unfortunate though that may be. Identifying the absolute elite is the be-all and end-all. Everyone else can quit curling forever as far as they are concerned.



So, Bernie for president then?

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05-17-16 10:48AM
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MNIceman
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The rationale for the Trails Qualification is that Derek would prefer to hand pick all 3 teams. Where do you draw the line for a fair and open path for all to qualify for the Olympics? What if the requirement was a World Gold medal next year or #1 OOM?

All of the HP decisions center around the fact that they are scared that the team they feel would have the best chance to medal at World's or the Olympics won't actually win their way there. I don't understand why the USCA Board of Directors finds this approach acceptable.

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05-17-16 11:01PM
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jhcurl
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quote:
[i]

All of the HP decisions center around the fact that they are scared that the team they feel would have the best chance to medal at World's or the Olympics won't actually win their way there. I don't understand why the USCA Board of Directors finds this approach acceptable. [/B]


As a Director, I would urge you to read the bylaws. The board is policy setting. The HPP is autonomous and makes their own decisions. The board does not control how teams are selected or qualified. The policy that is in place is to select teams on the ice. Yes, the qualifications are very difficult and probably not reachable.

JH

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05-18-16 07:57AM
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AlanMacNeill
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The bylaws can be changed....

Consider doing so.

For a Board of an allegedly "governing" organization to not have any meaningful input into how the most important team selection gets done is....frankly...irresponsible.

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05-18-16 10:35AM
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MNIceman
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I'm aware of who makes the HPP decisions. The board is responsible for personnel decisions.

(I was of course making an assumption as to what Derek really wants with the Trials format)

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05-18-16 02:44PM
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rbi
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quote:
...the qualifications are very difficult and probably not reachable.


then we are not really selecting teams on the ice.

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05-18-16 03:10PM
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curlky
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rbi, why do you say that. ultimately there will be a playdown for 3 to 5 teams, and the winner of that will go to the Olympics. That seems like it is on the ice.

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05-18-16 03:57PM
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MNIceman
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I believe he means that if the only path towards Olympic Trials qualification that is open and fair to all participants is a path that is unreasonably difficult to achieve then the Olympic Team is not truly being decided on the ice.

This is especially true since it seems unlikely that a non-HP team would ever receive one of the discretionary selections. Regardless of actual results on the ice.

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05-18-16 04:37PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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Are there any other curling associations who have a "sign up and go" for their trials, or for that matter, are there any other Olympic team sports that allow a team to show up and play?

I think it would be cool to say I played in the trials, but do I belong there? Nooooooooo

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05-18-16 04:42PM
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MNIceman
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If your team won the US National Championship I'd say you belong in the Olympic Trials. This system could leave out the National Champs.

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05-18-16 05:14PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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But where else does this happen. I'm not aware of any sport where there is easy entry to their trials. It's the Olympics, shouldn't barriers to entry be high?

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05-18-16 05:18PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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well, there was Eddie the Eagle

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05-18-16 05:20PM
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Grat
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quote:
Originally posted by SkipsWhoSayNi
Are there any other curling associations who have a "sign up and go" for their trials, or for that matter, are there any other Olympic team sports that allow a team to show up and play?

I think it would be cool to say I played in the trials, but do I belong there? Nooooooooo



Nobody's saying it should be a "sign up and go", but unless I'm missing something, on the women's side, no team in 2016 met the criteria to automatically qualify. If that's repeated next year, the selection committee is free to choose any three to five teams for the trials and don't have to include the national champion, OOM leader, or world championship rep.

I'm sure that wouldn't happen, but the rules make it possible.

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05-18-16 08:09PM
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Grat
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quote:
Originally posted by SkipsWhoSayNi
But where else does this happen. I'm not aware of any sport where there is easy entry to their trials. It's the Olympics, shouldn't barriers to entry be high?


The barrier should be high. But a team could perform well enough to earn the US an entry to the Olympics, but still not be guaranteed a spot in the trials.

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05-18-16 09:46PM
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AlanMacNeill
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quote:
Originally posted by SkipsWhoSayNi
But where else does this happen. I'm not aware of any sport where there is easy entry to their trials. It's the Olympics, shouldn't barriers to entry be high?


"Easy" is not the issue here.

"Accessible at all" is.

As it stands, our National Champion might not qualify for the Olympic Trials.

There is no route unless you are a professional curler, basically.

Shameful.

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05-19-16 12:35AM
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quote:
Originally posted by MNIceman
If your team won the US National Championship I'd say you belong in the Olympic Trials. This system could leave out the National Champs.


Agree with MNIceman

There's an old saying - whoever has the gold makes the rules. In this case the funding for the HPP comes from the USOC, and they make the rules. The USCA is simply along for the ride to rubber-stamp whatever the USOC wants.

For as long as it has existed, the USCA has relied on volunteers from its membership to set up and run national championships. Maybe it's time for the USCA to sever its relationship with the USOC. The USOC can provide the funding for facilities and officials for Olympic Trials with teams that they have selected.

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05-19-16 08:45AM
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RockDoc
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quote:
Originally posted by AlanMacNeill
The bylaws can be changed....

Consider doing so.

For a Board of an allegedly "governing" organization to not have any meaningful input into how the most important team selection gets done is....frankly...irresponsible.



It is not the role of a board of directors of any professional organization to run the day to day operations of the organization. Boards set strategic directions, monitor finances, and appoint and review key organization personnel. If boards are unhappy with organizational performance they can dismiss those key personnel but otherwise should be careful to not interfere with (micromanage) those that they have entrusted to run the organization. Typically, boards appoint and delegate personnel decisions to an executive officer, and this is case with the USCA.

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05-19-16 08:59AM
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SO many people on these boards would like the Canadian model for everything, things such as self formed teams, anyone can earn their way into nationals, national champ goes to worlds.

I would like to point out that Canada has a higher standard than the US standard of entry into Olympic playdown. The US has a rule that states you have to be Top 5 in the world to get a spot into the Olympic playdowns guaranteed. Canada requires a national champ to medal at worlds to get a spot into Olympic playdowns.

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05-19-16 09:04AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe


Agree with MNIceman

There's an old saying - whoever has the gold makes the rules. In this case the funding for the HPP comes from the USOC, and they make the rules. The USCA is simply along for the ride to rubber-stamp whatever the USOC wants.

For as long as it has existed, the USCA has relied on volunteers from its membership to set up and run national championships. Maybe it's time for the USCA to sever its relationship with the USOC. The USOC can provide the funding for facilities and officials for Olympic Trials with teams that they have selected.



I have to agree, maybe it is time to let the USOC become the governing body of curling. Let's use the USCA to concentrate on growing clubs and curlers in the USA. We can still have our own championships and use the current HPP money to help grow the grass root curling. This decision has little to no affect on 99.9% of curlers so let's pull the plug, call it a day and crown our own champions.

__________________
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05-19-16 11:15AM
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The USCA already is concentrating on club growth and programs.

Clubs are popping up all across the States. Mature arena clubs are starting to transition to dedicated facilities. Programing from Sport Education has rolled out instructor, official, and coaches training. Next season will be amazing for athlete training and coaching clinics. Remember, all these things are reliant on club dues. Want to accelerate the progress? Get clubs to join the USCA and pay their full share of dues. But all these things aren’t as sexy as HP. We all focus on HP while the USCA is busy going about it’s business outside the spotlight.

The HP program doesn’t use USCA dues money to operate. That comes from the USOC.

Want the USCA to run its own national championships? They already do, in the form of Club nationals.
In a sense, HP and the USCA are already two separate entities. And, like I mentioned earlier, the Member Service part (sport Ed) has some great things in the que for next year.

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05-19-16 11:59AM
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biterbar
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quote:
Originally posted by mr. lucky
The USCA already is concentrating on club growth and programs.

Clubs are popping up all across the States. Mature arena clubs are starting to transition to dedicated facilities. Programing from Sport Education has rolled out instructor, official, and coaches training. Next season will be amazing for athlete training and coaching clinics. Remember, all these things are reliant on club dues. Want to accelerate the progress? Get clubs to join the USCA and pay their full share of dues. But all these things aren’t as sexy as HP. We all focus on HP while the USCA is busy going about it’s business outside the spotlight.

The HP program doesn’t use USCA dues money to operate. That comes from the USOC.

Want the USCA to run its own national championships? They already do, in the form of Club nationals.
In a sense, HP and the USCA are already two separate entities. And, like I mentioned earlier, the Member Service part (sport Ed) has some great things in the que for next year.



By dropping it our board can stop worrying if HPP is going in the right direction. I'm sure it will give them a lot more time to focus on the PR they need to do to let the curlers know how wonderful the current programs are.


"want to accelerate the progress? Get clubs to join the USCA and pay their full dues"

Come to any two or three sheet club in Wisconsin and ask a rank and file member what the USCA did for you this year and you will get a blank stare. I remember some brochures with a lion on them. The "Roaring" game. Wisconsin has had a couple of drop outs from dues in the last couple years although Superior is back in the fold.

__________________
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05-19-16 12:17PM
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AlanMacNeill
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quote:
Originally posted by RockDoc

Boards set strategic directions



Like, you know "Our international Team selection criteria will be guided by fair and open principles open to all members to earn their way in"

Something like that...

So yeah, this is *EXACTLY* within the purview of the Board. We're not saying the Board needs to declare how many teams will be in, or what the format of the trials will be, but they do need to tell Derek that his path is unacceptable.

Pretty clear, really.

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