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05-04-16 07:46PM
JustAnotherHack is offline Click Here to See the Profile for JustAnotherHack Click here to Send JustAnotherHack a Private Message Find more posts by JustAnotherHack Add JustAnotherHack to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
JustAnotherHack
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Dec 2012
Location: BC, Ontario (and a few other places too...)
Posts: 268

quote:
Originally posted by Marco2010


With a 4 or 5 rock rule, the team with last rock will have 2 corner guards to attack with since you can't effectively tick away a corner guard. Knowing that your opponent can't blank you to death if you fall behind will encourage teams with last rock to attack on a regular basis and not bail out the minute things aren't going 100% their way.

A total ban on blank ends might not be the way to go but only offering a team behind in the score the option of blanking might be something worth trying out on the WCT.

I think a limited blank end rule would help balance out the winning percentages of teams. Why is it that top teams like McEwen win 88% of their games when they have last rock advantage on the first end but only 56% when they don't have last rock on the first end? (Gerry's numbers, pre-Brier). At the very least it would eliminate the frequent blank of the 1st end.



I don't like the idea of a "conditional" blank rule. Mostly because I generally hate conditional rules that only apply if a specific sequence of events occur during an end/game. It's a bit too gimmicky for my liking.

(I know, FGZ could be considered a gimmick too... but it's consistent for each and every end. I can live with consistent rules.)

If you're going to penalize a blank end, penalize it period. I get why you may allow the team behind to blank and retain hammer, but then you could quite possibly get yourself into the same issue that you're trying to resolve (team behind by one with hammer blanks their way to the 8 or 10th end where they go for their deuce).

If the purpose of penalizing blank ends is to get more rocks in play (which should, in theory, generate more scoring), then you need to penalize anyone who blanks and has hammer, regardless of the score. You want hammer? You better score your deuce or else... and I think you're likely to see more teams take a risk to generate that deuce in most circumstances.

(*By the way... please don't assume I support this sort of rule change. I don't as I don't feel it's necessary as of yet. But if you want to entertain the idea, I'm willing to play along with it.)

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Last edited by JustAnotherHack on 05-04-16 at 07:50PM

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05-04-16 07:48PM
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jamcan
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

Blanks are part of strategy and helpful to teams down two or more. Penalizing a team because their opponents play good defense makes no sense.

But if you want to try something then make covering the pin worth two points. That would certainly spice things up.

Otherwise, game is fine as it is.

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05-05-16 07:43AM
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Gerry
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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
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quote:
Originally posted by Curling Dave
Want to decrease the number of blank ends..., don't make the rocks so lively. Guarantee that in 90% of the curling clubs out there, these run back doubles, triples and quads would never happen even with the elites throwing the rocks.


The stones are lively because they're new stones. If you ordered new stones for your club you'd get the same "lively" stones.

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05-05-16 10:13AM
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rick8end
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Registered: Nov 2014
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 202

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry


The stones are lively because they're new stones. If you ordered new stones for your club you'd get the same "lively" stones.



One of the skills of curling - as little as a decade ago - was the ability to throw-up weight and still be accurate enough to make run-backs. Now, virtually everyone in the male game can do it because of the rocks, ice conditions and directional sweeping. Multiple blank ends have returned to many curling games despite the free-guard zone. They really do need to address this in some way. It's kind of unfortunate. Better rocks and ice conditions make the women's game more exciting because you see more good shots. But they make the men's game more predictable because the better shots have become routine.

They also need to address the final end of tied games. My guess is that 10 years ago, there was a 30% chance that good teams could steal a point in the last end of a tied game. Nowadays it's probably 10% at the upper levels. Elimination of the tick shot - which counters everything the free-guard zone was introduced to do - seems the most logical starting point as it has become almost routine with directional sweeping and practise.

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05-05-16 04:29PM
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RockDoc
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Re: Re: Re: 5 blank ends in Champions Cup final

quote:
Originally posted by On The Nose

Actually, I've seen more blank ends at the elite level this season than in any season in recent history. To me, the main reason is obvious: the new sweeping techniques combined with the new brush pad materials. This allows shots to bend around guards - even tight guards - like never before.
This, and what seems to be an efficiency increase with run backs, doubles, etc. (which is also owing, in part, to the new sweeping), has resulted in the increase in blank ends this season.



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This.

If you can't hide a rock anywhere behind a single guard, it makes forcing really difficult, or really risky. Blanks result. A good example of this dilemma is from the Jacobs-Gushe games in the Brier. In the 1-2 game where Gushue decided to go with two center guards in the first end in a desperate attempt to escape the directionally swept hack-weight come-arounds, or (if buried too tight) the relatively simple short runback at this level. In the last round-robin game hours earlier, Jacobs' team shredded the one-guard forcing strategy by playing a huge string of blanks. In the 1-2 game, Gushue took considerable risk to attempt to squeeze a force, but lost control of the game early (only to make an epic comeback based on some key team Jacobs' misses).

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05-06-16 05:52PM
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Stumpy
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Feb 2016
Location: Ontario
Posts: 46

I'm a firm believer that the team without last rock is usually just as much to blame for a blank end as the team with last rock. (The first extra end would be the exception.) Blank ends are part of the strategy for both teams.

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Curling Scores

M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 6 -- Mon, Mar 18 -- 7:00pm AT
Gagn/Mori Final
Rees/Ches (EE)
Sand/Crai Final
Gamb/Kalt (8)
Arms/Grif Final
Pete/Gall (7) Watch Live Curling!
Zhen/Piet Final
Gion/Desj (7)
Wasy/Koni Final
Jone/Lain (EE)
Wise/Smit 12  Final
Weag/Eppi (6)
Lott/Lott 12  Final
Bouc/Char (7)
Krev/Math Final
Whit/Whit (6)
M: Aberdeen International Curling Championship
Aberdeen, SCO
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 2:45pm GMT
Mouat Final
Shuster (7)
D: WCT Slovakia Mixed Doubles Cup II
Bratislava, SVK
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 12:00pm CET
Han/Zou Final
Paul/Paul (7)
Cihl/Mace Final
Yang/Tian 10  (6)
: NWTCA Mixed
Yellowknife, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 4 -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 10:00am MT
Delorey Final
Koe (5)
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