Forums Menu

User: 
Pass:  

Curling Scores

M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 6 -- Mon, Mar 18 -- 7:00pm AT
Gagn/Mori Final
Rees/Ches (EE)
Sand/Crai Final
Gamb/Kalt (8)
Arms/Grif Final
Pete/Gall (7) Watch Live Curling!
Zhen/Piet Final
Gion/Desj (7)
Wasy/Koni Final
Jone/Lain (EE)
Wise/Smit 12  Final
Weag/Eppi (6)
Lott/Lott 12  Final
Bouc/Char (7)
Krev/Math Final
Whit/Whit (6)
M: Aberdeen International Curling Championship
Aberdeen, SCO
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 2:45pm GMT
Mouat Final
Shuster (7)
W: Biktrix Saskatchewan Senior Women's Curling Championship
Martensville, SK
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 3:00pm MT
Foster Final
Streifel (8) Watch Live Curling!
W: CCAA / Curling Canada College Championships
Sudbury, ON
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sat, Mar 16 -- 2:30pm AT
Southern Alberta IoT Final
Concordia U (10)
UofA - Augustana Final
Humber College (10)
D: WCT Slovakia Mixed Doubles Cup II
Bratislava, SVK
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 12:00pm CET
Han/Zou Final
Paul/Paul (7)
Cihl/Mace Final
Yang/Tian 10  (6)
: NWTCA Mixed
Yellowknife, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 4 -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 10:00am MT
Delorey Final
Koe (5)
Full Scoreboard  |  Play Fantasy Pick'em!  

CurlingZone : Powered by vBulletin>
<smallfont><b><a href=CurlingZone > Chat Forums > General Curling Chat > Rock Talk > Broomgate-what is next?

Disclaimer: CurlingZone does not represent or endorse the accuracy or reliability of any Content posted on any Forums area and you acknowledge that any reliance upon such Content shall be at your sole risk. Any Content placed on any Forums area by users and anonymous posters are the views of the user posting the statement, and do not represent the views of CurlingZone or our partners, advertisers or sponsors. By posting anonymously, you are allowing your IP address to be displayed for identification purposes. CurlingZone reserves the right to remove any post at its discretion without warning or explanation.
Page 3 of 3 -- Go to: ««   | 1 | 2 | 3 |   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread   Post A Reply
05-02-16 12:32PM
RockDoc is offline Click Here to See the Profile for RockDoc Click here to Send RockDoc a Private Message Find more posts by RockDoc Add RockDoc to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
RockDoc
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Apr 2005
Location:
Posts: 399

quote:
Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
"Materials and construction will have to be addressed to even the field"

I'm confused by this, are you saying that there should be one broom style, with everyone using the same materials? Where is the innovation, the improvement? We have seen huge changes over the last 10-15 years. Would you rather be using that ratty 10" brownie broom of old?



Your words, not mine. There are many possible solutions to the materials and construction problem. The most likely outcome is limits on the properties of fabric and backing materials, and perhaps surface area for acceptable brushes. That leaves room for some innovation while maintaining limits on performance. But there are certainly more restrictive possibilities.

One should consider that innovation got us to where we are today. That's not to blame innovation--just that we need to take stock at this point because innovation may have inadvertently taken us too far.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

05-02-16 01:40PM
JustAnotherHack is offline Click Here to See the Profile for JustAnotherHack Click here to Send JustAnotherHack a Private Message Find more posts by JustAnotherHack Add JustAnotherHack to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
JustAnotherHack
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Dec 2012
Location: BC, Ontario (and a few other places too...)
Posts: 268

quote:
Originally posted by RockDoc


Who beat whom with what equipment is irrelevant. What is relevant is the amount of control of curl various materials and equipment, with proper technique, can provide. We already know a lot about this by observing games this season pre- and post-moratorium. The summer months should allow for more empirical testing for rulemaking next season.

All fabric brushing materials will scratch the ice to some extent. The question is how much is acceptable? I think this is a sortable question, actually.



I'll have to disagree with part of what you said... or rather, the context of how it was said, comparing it to the statements that have been coming from the teams involved.

Whom beat whom with what equipment is relevant, because the teams have made statements and accusations that blamed their lack of success on a specific type of equipment (Hardline).

As the stats appear to indicate, that's not true. Teams were still unsuccessful or successful regardless of what equipment their opposition was using.

So these teams cannot point the finger based upon their success or lack thereof.

But you are right in that certain fabrics (and hair brooms), COMBINED with the changes in technique (i.e., the snowplow and corner sweeping), and the improved fitness and strength of sweepers, have resulted in changing the effectiveness of sweeping.

Then again, anyone who has been around the game for a while would be able to tell you that corner sweeping and snowplowing isn't exactly a new thing... it's just that much more obvious now.

Whatever the powers that be come up with, it had better be transparent and it had better happen well before the end of the summer. Otherwise we'll be revisiting this gong show again in September.

__________________
Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.
- Calvin (Calvin & Hobbs)

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

05-02-16 02:22PM
jamcan is offline Click Here to See the Profile for jamcan Click here to Send jamcan a Private Message Find more posts by jamcan Add jamcan to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
jamcan
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

Well put. It is definitely a combination but the question is what degree of impact technique has compared to technology. We need to remember that before the rule change, for example, hair brushes were actually considered inferior equipment to synthetics.

Then Brad Gushue posts a video which shows clearly that hair brooms are just as effective as synthetic when snowplowing.

So what does that tell us? I stand by a claim I made back in the fall; this is 85% technique and 15% technology. A combination to be sure, but not a 50/50 one.

__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

05-02-16 03:11PM
dugless_zone 13 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for dugless_zone 13 Click here to Send dugless_zone 13 a Private Message Find more posts by dugless_zone 13 Add dugless_zone 13 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990

I think sweeping rules should be addressed first to see how much effect the brooms have if directional sweeping is limited. If there is still a "problem" after this has been tried then you can look at the equipment. Changing the sweeping rules cost the curlers ( club and elite) nothing as they can still use whatever broom they currently have. Changing equipment rules cost everybody, people who have invested in brooms and broomheads might be forced to change equipment at their own expense which might not be best for players on a limited budget. Also, you change one variable, test it and see what happens, never change two things at once.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

05-02-16 03:57PM
Guest1334 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Guest1334 Click here to Send Guest1334 a Private Message Find more posts by Guest1334 Add Guest1334 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Guest1334
Knee-Slider

 

Registered: May 2016
Location:
Posts: 1

The sweeping summit with material testing seems to shape up:
http://www.worldcurling.org/sweeping-summit-confirmed

They also provide a survey which can be filled out by every "interested" party including recreational curlers...

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

05-02-16 05:29PM
jamcan is offline Click Here to See the Profile for jamcan Click here to Send jamcan a Private Message Find more posts by jamcan Add jamcan to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
jamcan
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

quote:
Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
I think sweeping rules should be addressed first to see how much effect the brooms have if directional sweeping is limited. If there is still a "problem" after this has been tried then you can look at the equipment. Changing the sweeping rules cost the curlers ( club and elite) nothing as they can still use whatever broom they currently have. Changing equipment rules cost everybody, people who have invested in brooms and broomheads might be forced to change equipment at their own expense which might not be best for players on a limited budget. Also, you change one variable, test it and see what happens, never change two things at once.


Absolutely. This is exactly what should have happened first before any products were banned. In fact, we now see that, even after several different types of brooms have been banned, there has been zero impact on directional sweeping. Obviously it's not the technology which is the major factor here.

__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

05-02-16 10:12PM
curlky is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curlky Click here to Send curlky a Private Message Find more posts by curlky Add curlky to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
curlky
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 559

quote:
Originally posted by jamcan
In fact, we now see that, even after several different types of brooms have been banned, there has been zero impact on directional sweeping. Obviously it's not the technology which is the major factor here.


jamcam, here is why i will argue with almost every one of your posts. You speak with such absolution, and with "facts".

You say its not 50-50, but 85-15. Please explain why it is 85-15, and not 80-20, or 75-25. Please provide your tests that show this.

You say that has been zero impact. Oh really. So you are saying if the blackhead would have been used all year by all teams thing would not have changes at all, not one bit?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

05-02-16 10:22PM
jamcan is offline Click Here to See the Profile for jamcan Click here to Send jamcan a Private Message Find more posts by jamcan Add jamcan to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
jamcan
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

Curlky, I've called for real testing since this whole debacle began. But since none is happening (and I mean real, scientific and controlled) and the WCF seems content to make major decisions based on the opinions of a few curlers who consider themselves above the rest, then my own conclusions are just as valid and perhaps better informed than theirs.

Why? Because I'm an old snowplower from way back. When I say this is nothing new, it's because it isn't. Granted, we didn't have squeaky clean ice or sanded stones. But we could hold a stone straight, make it back up, curl hard at the end of a draw, change the handle on a slow rotation and make a stone come to a dead stop by lifting a brush straight up. Not a whole helluva lot different then what I saw this year and what everyone is crying about.

So no, curlky, I don't have lab tests to back up my claims. Just experience that saw this all happen 30 years ago. And that experience knows it's 80-85% technique vs. technology. But I would love to see test results prove me wrong, seriously I would.

As for zero impact, cmon. After all the equipment that has been banned why hasn't the effect of snowplowing gone away? Because it's not the tool.

__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson

Last edited by jamcan on 05-02-16 at 10:30PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

05-03-16 12:41AM
JustAnotherHack is offline Click Here to See the Profile for JustAnotherHack Click here to Send JustAnotherHack a Private Message Find more posts by JustAnotherHack Add JustAnotherHack to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
JustAnotherHack
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Dec 2012
Location: BC, Ontario (and a few other places too...)
Posts: 268

quote:
Originally posted by curlky


jamcam, here is why i will argue with almost every one of your posts. You speak with such absolution, and with "facts".

You say its not 50-50, but 85-15. Please explain why it is 85-15, and not 80-20, or 75-25. Please provide your tests that show this.

You say that has been zero impact. Oh really. So you are saying if the blackhead would have been used all year by all teams thing would not have changes at all, not one bit?



Well, I will ask this question:

What has changed this season versus seasons past that has resulted in the "carving" of rocks.

It's not the brooms (at least, not entirely). Hair brooms have been around for 30+ years. Hardline Brooms, the new kids on the block, have been around for 2-3 years. Goldline and the Norway Pad, a year or two longer (EQ pad, around the same). Why didn't we notice this sort of stuff when the newer broom tech showed up? Why weren't guys carving rocks with hair brooms years ago?

So again, what changed this year from year's past? Sweeping technique. The one sweeper technique was something that no one believed in at first, and everyone blamed Hardline... but lo and behold, everyone is doing it now (and it's probably something that will be in the game from here on out). Snowplowing and directional sweeping has also added to the effects of what a broom can do... including ones that were perfectly fine last season.

The EQ "blackhead" broom was about taking something to an extreme. We can talk about how broom technology can magnify the effects of sweeping mechanics, but I would guess that even the 'blackhead" broom would be less effective if traditional sweeping techniques (i.e., two sweepers, no directional sweeping) were used.

My suggestion is that Jamcan is on to something. It will still need to be proved through proper testing, but... sweeping technique has been the biggest change to sweeping this year, and I would hypothesize that this is what is impacting sweeping more than the technology itself.

__________________
Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.
- Calvin (Calvin & Hobbs)

Last edited by JustAnotherHack on 05-03-16 at 11:45AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

05-03-16 02:05AM
On The Nose is offline Click Here to See the Profile for On The Nose Find more posts by On The Nose Add On The Nose to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
On The Nose
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608

quote:
Originally posted by JustAnotherHack


Well, I will ask this question:

What has changed this season versus seasons past that has resulted in the "carving" of rocks.

It's not the brooms (at least, not entirely). Hair brooms have been around for 30+ years. Hardline Brooms, the new kids on the block, have been around for 2-3 years. Goldline and the Norway Pad, a year or two longer (EQ pad, around the same). Why didn't we notice this sort of stuff when the newer broom tech showed up? Why weren't guys carving rocks with hair brooms years ago?

So again, what changed this year from year's past? Sweeping technique. The one sweeper technique was something that no one believed in at first, and everyone blamed Hardline... but lo and behold, everyone is doing it now (and it's probably something that will be in the game from here on out). Snowplowing and directional sweeping has also added to the effects of what a broom can do... including ones that were perfectly fine last season.

The EQ "blackhead" broom was an taking something to an extreme. We can talk about how broom technology can magnify the effects of sweeping mechanics, but I would guess that even the 'blackhead" broom would be less effective if traditional sweeping techniques (i.e., two sweepers, no directional sweeping) were used.


I've said this ^, as well, from the outset. The broom pads that are said to be responsible for 'steering' rocks (to various degrees) have been around for a few years - and hair heads for a good number of years - but only in the past year have sweepers truly been 'steering' rocks - left, right, straight - to an extreme degree; only in the past year has sweeping radically changed the way the game is played. Ergo, the logical thing to do is to look at what has changed in the past year to make it so - and the obvious and indisputable answer is that it is the sweeping techniques which have changed in the past year.
It's basic cause and effect - or, to simplify even further, 1+1=2.

For those interested in this topic, but who haven't seen it, take a look at this (it was posted as another thread, but that thread doesn't have many comments)...
http://www.curlbc.ca/duncans-curlin...ce-to-the-test/
Click on the link at the bottom of the page for the 'full report'.

__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

05-03-16 01:40PM
curlky is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curlky Click here to Send curlky a Private Message Find more posts by curlky Add curlky to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
curlky
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 559

quote:
Originally posted by JustAnotherHack


Well, I will ask this question:

What has changed this season versus seasons past that has resulted in the "carving" of rocks.

Why didn't we notice this sort of stuff when the newer broom tech showed up? Why weren't guys carving rocks with hair brooms years ago?

So again, what changed this year from year's past? Sweeping technique.

sweeping technique has been the biggest change to sweeping this year, and I would hypothesize that this is what is impacting sweeping more than the technology itself.



A lot of points to address.

To say that broom material was not noticed until this year is a 100% complete lie, and anyone who tells you this is lying. Dont believe be, listen to interview with Brad Jacobs on the Curling Show and he says he was aware of it last year. I myself wrote a letter of concern to the WCF about the fabric material, mostly looking for an explanation.

Sweeping technique in terms of directional sweeping did not change this year. The rule that prevented directional sweeping was removed years ago because teams were sweeping at angles anyway, and it was to hard to enforce the rule, so it was eliminated. In a previous post I posted videos of people from past Olympics using directional sweeping, so that is not new either. I only learned to curl in 2010, but in 2010 I was very aware of switch sweeping and corner sweeping to finish rocks, so again none of that is new.

All that is new this year is a new knowledge base. People finally learned that there are times where 1 sweeper is better than 2, which was never really known before. People learned that corner sweeping could be used all the way down the ice, and not just to finish a rock once ti got into a house. People finally learned that some brooms materials were better for curl and others were better for glide. All that is new is knowledge. So how do you eliminate knowledge? Well, you cant.

So what is the next step? That is what all the hullabaloo is about. The first step is to determine what people want the game of curling to look like. What effect should sweeping have? Do people want rules that will lead to more missed shots and drama, or do people want rules that will lead to shooting percentages on the pro level being always super high in the 90% range or so? I like the survey that they are putting out before the sweeping summit. I hope that it does not get spammed, and that the results get published. I also hope that any rule changes are easy to interpret and enforce at any level, with or without officials.

Without a doubt there will be rules on equipment. Potentially the rules will stay status quo as played at worlds. Maybe more lenient, maybe more strict. But since there are currently zero rules about brooms, something will get on the books since the moratoriums were temporary in nature, and there is absolutely zero chance that they allow equipment to go back to thunderdome, where there are zero rules and anything goes.

Will there be rules about technique, it is clear that my opinion differs from many on this topic, but I think that there will also be rules on technique. I suspect that they will not go far enough to make jamcam and folks happy enough, but some rules will be put in place for technique to limit broom switches if nothing else.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

05-03-16 03:17PM
JustAnotherHack is offline Click Here to See the Profile for JustAnotherHack Click here to Send JustAnotherHack a Private Message Find more posts by JustAnotherHack Add JustAnotherHack to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
JustAnotherHack
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Dec 2012
Location: BC, Ontario (and a few other places too...)
Posts: 268

quote:
Originally posted by curlky


A lot of points to address.

*snip*




I think you're missing the point curlky.

Yes, fabric and broom construction has played a role in this. I've heard the yipping about broom technology prior to this year as well, whether it was the Hardline, Goldline (Norway) or EQ brooms. But it hadn't resulted in what we saw occur this season.

Until teams started to change their sweeping techniques to go along with the fancy new broom tech is when everyone started screaming.

And again, hair brooms have been around for a very long time and all of a sudden they were banned as well. What changed? Sweeping technique.

So yes, both equipment and technique played a role in where we are at today. But the drastic changes didn't start until the significant changes in technique... and I think this is where we should start our examination of sweeping and where we want the game to go.

Now it may turn out that the powers-that-be may decide that policing sweeping technique is not a viable option (and I understand that argument even if I may not agree with it). And if that's the case, then equipment becomes the only way they can regulate sweeping.

But that will open up a whole new set of issues. Standards need to be set quickly so equipment manufacturers can adjust. Everyone has to go out and get a new broom or broom head and/or set different rules for equipment for different levels of curling, and so on... there are no ideal options here either.

I think you and most people agree that it will have to be a combination of changes in sweeping rules, as well as clearly defined equipment standards. And be transparent in how you set the rules... don't make stuff up as you go along without being clear why. If that point doesn't happen, they are just asking for trouble.

Where it winds up... we shall see.

(Hopefully "the-powers-that-be" read some of these forums... some good points are being raised here.)

__________________
Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.
- Calvin (Calvin & Hobbs)

Last edited by JustAnotherHack on 05-03-16 at 03:19PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

05-03-16 04:19PM
curlky is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curlky Click here to Send curlky a Private Message Find more posts by curlky Add curlky to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
curlky
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 559

quote:
Originally posted by JustAnotherHack


I think you're missing the point curlky.

Yes, fabric and broom construction has played a role in this. I've heard the yipping about broom technology prior to this year as well, whether it was the Hardline, Goldline (Norway) or EQ brooms. But it hadn't resulted in what we saw occur this season.

Until teams started to change their sweeping techniques to go along with the fancy new broom tech is when everyone started screaming.

And again, hair brooms have been around for a very long time and all of a sudden they were banned as well. What changed? Sweeping technique.



Since I was apparently too long winded, and you missed my point, I will keep it simple:

There were no new sweeping techniques used this year that were not used in prior years. The only new thing was not technique, but when to apply techniques that have been around for multiple years.

Please give details if you think this statement is wrong. Semantically you may say that 1 new technique was a single sweeper rather than sweeping in pairs, and that is half true, but that single sweeper was still using the same physical technique that has been used for multiple years (either straight or corner sweeping).

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

05-03-16 05:53PM
jamcan is offline Click Here to See the Profile for jamcan Click here to Send jamcan a Private Message Find more posts by jamcan Add jamcan to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
jamcan
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

Curlky, you're long winded reply was mostly a repeat of what others have already said. However you have made a few misstatements that bear correction. To wit:

The rule change which you mention was originally done with the intention that it was clearer and easy to enforce. Well we all know now that the reality was the opposite. The values wording opened up interpretation and over a few seasons snowplowing crept back into the game. Only a few teams at first then, this season, everyone jumped on the bandwagon.

Who was the first to complain? Who cares? (Although the loudest appear to be those who thought they had the monopoly on the technique).

And for those who read curlky's constant insistence that a rule regarding sweeping angle can't be enforced, don't be fooled. It can-and should-be done. Tell any top team that if they don't sweep across the path at a designated angle that their rocks will be pulled and watch how fast they can change.

This is not an issue of difficulty. It's a simple matter of a clearly written rule, instruction and enforcement.

__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

05-03-16 06:04PM
curlky is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curlky Click here to Send curlky a Private Message Find more posts by curlky Add curlky to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
curlky
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 559

jamcam, you are wrong about the rule, and you have yet to present a complete plan on how you will enforce your sweeping angle rule, with or without officials, other that to say it is simply possible. I bring up issues with having officials of all games, and your need for overhead cameras that dont always exist, and you just say im wrong, with no answers. I on the other hand have given you examples of issues with your issues, and ask questions, and you address nothing. Ive even given you videos and asked you as an official how you would rule on certain shots, and you could not do it. I suspect that if an angle rule is put into play to limit any angle less than 45 degrees, I will anticipate needing to call foul on probably 20 of the other teams 64 rocks in any given club game,as the mechanism of sweeping while walking down the ice requires angle sweeping to keep up with the rock.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

05-03-16 06:15PM
JustAnotherHack is offline Click Here to See the Profile for JustAnotherHack Click here to Send JustAnotherHack a Private Message Find more posts by JustAnotherHack Add JustAnotherHack to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
JustAnotherHack
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Dec 2012
Location: BC, Ontario (and a few other places too...)
Posts: 268

quote:
Originally posted by curlky


Since I was apparently too long winded, and you missed my point, I will keep it simple:

There were no new sweeping techniques used this year that were not used in prior years. The only new thing was not technique, but when to apply techniques that have been around for multiple years.

Please give details if you think this statement is wrong. Semantically you may say that 1 new technique was a single sweeper rather than sweeping in pairs, and that is half true, but that single sweeper was still using the same physical technique that has been used for multiple years (either straight or corner sweeping).



Huh.

So, if there were no changes to sweeping techniques this season (or fine, reverting back to techniques from yesteryear - obvious corner sweeping and snowplowing), why were hair brooms suddenly banned after being perfectly fine for what... 30+ years?

And you're trying to sell us the fact that sweeping techniques haven't changed? If that's not it... what is it then? What changed?

The one-sweeper method played a large part, absolutely. Gushue and his experiments, and the understanding that it was likely "micro-scratches" that were causing rocks to fall, stay straight or curl, made everyone adjust their technique.

Then with that... well, now teams are not sweeping across the path of the rock anymore, they're corner sweeping or snowplowing to enhance the effect... as it's apparent that those sorts of sweeping motions are even more effective (with a single sweeper) than the conventional 45-90 degree sweeping motion across the traveling path of the rock.

There was always a degree of cheating involved with corner sweeping and snowplowing, but with the fact that WCF/Curling Canada decided to turn a blind eye towards the mechanics of sweeping (with the very odd exception)... well, it's turned sweeping into something very different than what it was from even last year.

The new brooms designs enhanced the effects (and should be looked at), but please, don't pretend that sweeping technique hasn't changed and that all this is on the equipment.

__________________
Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.
- Calvin (Calvin & Hobbs)

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

05-03-16 08:43PM
jamcan is offline Click Here to See the Profile for jamcan Click here to Send jamcan a Private Message Find more posts by jamcan Add jamcan to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
jamcan
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

quote:
Originally posted by curlky
jamcam, you are wrong about the rule, and you have yet to present a complete plan on how you will enforce your sweeping angle rule, with or without officials, other that to say it is simply possible. I bring up issues with having officials of all games, and your need for overhead cameras that dont always exist, and you just say im wrong, with no answers. I on the other hand have given you examples of issues with your issues, and ask questions, and you address nothing. Ive even given you videos and asked you as an official how you would rule on certain shots, and you could not do it. I suspect that if an angle rule is put into play to limit any angle less than 45 degrees, I will anticipate needing to call foul on probably 20 of the other teams 64 rocks in any given club game,as the mechanism of sweeping while walking down the ice requires angle sweeping to keep up with the rock.


Wrong again curlky. You asked the same question on other threads and each time I responded you ignored those replies. I've addressed every single issue you raise-even the ones you do so repeatedly -and you ignore the replies. So I'm done rehashing the same questions you raise over and over. Go back to other threads and actually read what I write. You might be enlightened.

In the meantime, I totally respect that you are a new curler to the scene since 2010. I love that. And I'm glad to see new people like you joining the game and getting involved. But please, and I do not mean this to be patronizing, there is history on this issue that you are obviously not aware of. Listen carefully to posts like mine or hacks. We are good, or were lol, and this is something we went through 30 years ago.

__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

All times are GMT. The time now is . Post New Thread   Post A Reply
Page 3 of 3 -- Go to: ««   | 1 | 2 | 3 |   Last Thread   Next Thread
Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to thisThread

Forum Jump:
Rate This Thread:

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 

Curling Scores

M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 6 -- Mon, Mar 18 -- 7:00pm AT
Gagn/Mori Final
Rees/Ches (EE)
Sand/Crai Final
Gamb/Kalt (8)
Arms/Grif Final
Pete/Gall (7) Watch Live Curling!
Zhen/Piet Final
Gion/Desj (7)
Wasy/Koni Final
Jone/Lain (EE)
Wise/Smit 12  Final
Weag/Eppi (6)
Lott/Lott 12  Final
Bouc/Char (7)
Krev/Math Final
Whit/Whit (6)
M: Aberdeen International Curling Championship
Aberdeen, SCO
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 2:45pm GMT
Mouat Final
Shuster (7)
D: WCT Slovakia Mixed Doubles Cup II
Bratislava, SVK
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 12:00pm CET
Han/Zou Final
Paul/Paul (7)
Cihl/Mace Final
Yang/Tian 10  (6)
: NWTCA Mixed
Yellowknife, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 4 -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 10:00am MT
Delorey Final
Koe (5)
Full Scoreboard  |  Play Fantasy Pick'em!  

Recent News

Recent
Canadian mixed doubles championship starts in Fredericton on Sunday

Canadian mixed doubles championship starts in Fredericton on Sunday

Marlee Powers and Luke Saunders of Halifax, Nova Scotia won 6-5 over Papley/van Amsterdam in the opening draw streamed on Curling Canada's Plus platform.

Curling Photos

Recent

Curling Blogs

Facebook Feed

Twitter Feed

To top ↑