Forums Menu

User: 
Pass:  

Curling Scores

M: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: M7 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 8:00pm CT
Lannoye Final
Hebert (10) Watch Live Curling!
Fitzgerald 10th
Cenzalli  Watch Live Curling!
Brenden Final
Church (9) Watch Live Curling!
Guentzel Final
Rose (6) Watch Live Curling!
W: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: W6 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 4:00pm CT
Berg Final
Scheel (10) Watch Live Curling!
Berg Final
Schapman (10) Watch Live Curling!
Giroux 10  Final
Pekowitz (9) Watch Live Curling!
Viau Final
Johnson (10) Watch Live Curling!
M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Fri, Mar 22 -- 1:00pm AT
Lott/Lott Final
Walk/Muyr (8) Watch Live Curling!
M: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 3:00am ET
Caccivio Final
Brauchli 12  (EE)
Dryburgh Final
Ringgenberg (9)
W: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 9:00am CET
Schwaller Final
Oberson (9)
Blackham Final
von Arx (9)
W: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 11:00am MT
Stroeder Final
Delorey (7)
M: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 1:00pm ET
Delorey Final
Lockhart (EE)
Full Scoreboard  |  Play Fantasy Pick'em!  

CurlingZone : Powered by vBulletin>
<smallfont><b><a href=CurlingZone > Chat Forums > Tours, Events and Major Championships > Playdowns > Canada Cup to replace Brier as biggest event

Disclaimer: CurlingZone does not represent or endorse the accuracy or reliability of any Content posted on any Forums area and you acknowledge that any reliance upon such Content shall be at your sole risk. Any Content placed on any Forums area by users and anonymous posters are the views of the user posting the statement, and do not represent the views of CurlingZone or our partners, advertisers or sponsors. By posting anonymously, you are allowing your IP address to be displayed for identification purposes. CurlingZone reserves the right to remove any post at its discretion without warning or explanation.
Page 1 of 2 -- Go to: | 1 | 2 | »»   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread   Post A Reply
12-02-14 11:13PM
Gerry is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Gerry Click here to Send Gerry a Private Message Visit Gerry's homepage! Find more posts by Gerry Add Gerry to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Gerry
CZ Founder

 

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 4002

Canada Cup to replace Brier as biggest event

Interesting interview with Warren Hansen where he discusses the likely transition of the Canada Cup becoming more important to Canadian Curling than the Brier. The future of the game sees the winner of the Canada Cup representing Canada at the Worlds.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/12/...d-curling-event

__________________
CurlingZone
Everything...Curling!

Please click on our sponsors' banners periodically, as visiting their sites helps keep CurlingZone.com Free!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-03-14 12:16AM
IN-OFF-FOR-2 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for IN-OFF-FOR-2 Find more posts by IN-OFF-FOR-2 Add IN-OFF-FOR-2 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875

STUPID

This has to be one of the dumbest things ever stated regarding curling in Canada. Let's recommend, or condone, or suggest, or be a proponent for players from Alberta, or any other province, pretend to represent every province in the country. It's almost that way now with so many players not even pretending to live in the province they represent, and the appropriate associations turning a blind eye and deaf ear knowing full well it's taking place, and in some cases offering them, and paying for these players to do just that. I sure hope this guy is not paid by the rest of the curlers in the country or CCA to say or come up with stupid suggestions like this. Oh, sorry, I guess he is. What better way to ruin grassroots and any competitive curling in the rest of the country than to have national competitions decided by the dozen or so teams with tens of 1000's of federal or corporate sponsorships. Is this guy for real? Does he think any clubs or provinces will continue to support the CCA if all their membership is excluded. How very shortsighted. No financial support from provincial memberships affected, equals no additional funding, equals only corporate sponsorship for teams. I guess the sponsors will be able to buy their Canadian rep, whoever has the most money to pay their teams. Sound crazy? Keep going in this direction, and no, it's just a matter of time Canada becomes like Sweden with an appointed champion, as paid for by corporate and taxpayers money. Hurry hard.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-03-14 12:38AM
peteski is offline Click Here to See the Profile for peteski Click here to Send peteski a Private Message Find more posts by peteski Add peteski to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
peteski
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 631

I don't see this happening. Right now you have one great event in the Brier and one very decent event in the Canada Cup. Wouldn't you simply kill the Brier if you took away the right to represent the country? What's the point in that? Besides that, I'm not sure I see the need. The Brier should field a very competitive field this year. How many teams do you expect to be uncompetitive? Maybe two or three?

I don't hate the changes they've made already and I think a one import rule makes some sense, but the Brier and the Scotties are special and worth preserving.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-03-14 10:07AM
curlerbroad is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curlerbroad Click here to Send curlerbroad a Private Message Find more posts by curlerbroad Add curlerbroad to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2668

Well judging by the entries in the Junior zones in Ontario, in a few years there won't be any competitive curlers in Canada. Instead of wanting to make the Canada Cup the premier event (shutting out the Maritimes, the North and Quebec)instead of the Brier & Scotties, they should be very worried about participation in competitions at the entry level.

What a dumb idea, I also don't like this residency hopping all over the place - if you want to curl for an Alberta team, then move and live in Alberta.

__________________
Well Behaved Women Don't Make History.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-03-14 10:51AM
curlingmad is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curlingmad Click here to Send curlingmad a Private Message Find more posts by curlingmad Add curlingmad to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
curlingmad
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 202

Re: Canada Cup to replace Brier as biggest event

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry
Interesting interview with Warren Hansen where he discusses the likely transition of the Canada Cup becoming more important to Canadian Curling than the Brier. The future of the game sees the winner of the Canada Cup representing Canada at the Worlds.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/12/...d-curling-event



I've been heavily involved in curling for many years and see the main prob with the sport today being the CCA and in particular one individual who seems to run the show. The funny thing is one of my earliest memories in the game happened during the Men's World Championships in Bern in 1974 when our famous leader burns a rock, which makes him the biggest outcast on Hec's team. For WH to say the CC will replace the Brier is the dumbest statement or prediction of all time... if that happened, you would see curling take a drastic nosedive in every province outside of two or three (namely AB, MB and ON). The funny thing is that I don't know of one person who is changing their sched to watch the CC, as it is the same highly sponsored teams you see on every TV broadcast.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-03-14 02:24PM
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shawzy
Guest

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

This is probably the stupidest idea I've heard yet. The problem that's emerging in curling is that there is a substantial gap between the top 10 or so funded, professional (let's not kid ourselves that they're amateur anymore) rinks and anyone trying to make it to that level. Events like the Canada Cup and the Grand Slams only emphasize this gap by excluding the lower-ranked teams and allowing the top-ranked teams to make more money and gain more points. The Men's Slam in the Soo was refreshing because we got to see teams like Bottcher who you wouldn't normally see. And since Bottcher got points at the Slam he's been able to qualify for the next one. However, 90% of the teams are still the same event to event.

Hansen is right when he says in the article that there are usually only 3-4 teams in with a shout at the Brier in a given year but that's largely a product of the "rich get richer" system that we have set up currently. In recent memory only Jacobs and McEwen have been able to crack the top group (and McEwen is debatable since he hasn't won any events where sponsorship is up for grabs). Jacobs had to go on a "cinderella" run to win the Brier and thus secure funding, which was only increased by winning the Olympics. Now Jacobs has entered the elite echelon but only one or two wins separates his rink from Jim Cotter's rink (who lost both the Trials and Brier finals last year, thus missing funding).

By making the invite-only Canada Cup the qualifying event for the Olympics and the Worlds you eliminate the ability of anyone outside the pre-established top 10 from breaking into said group. Currently, you can still go on a run and win the Brier or Scotties and thus break in, but if you're never given the opportunity because you play in Nova Scotia and cannot afford to travel to Slams or other big-money tour events then the divide will only get larger.

Combined with the issues at the junior level regarding the number of teams competing, this will thoroughly kill Canadian curling to the point that we'll have professionally contracted teams/players like Scotland and China and then no one else who can compete. A better alternative would be to open up events and tours participation-wise to give more teams the ability to win money and points and thus climb up the standings (and making it possible to have a truly professional curling league that isn't made up of just 5-10 teams).

Report this post to a moderator | IP: 70.64.79.130

12-03-14 02:46PM
doubletakeout is offline Click Here to See the Profile for doubletakeout Click here to Send doubletakeout a Private Message Find more posts by doubletakeout Add doubletakeout to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
doubletakeout
Swing Artist

 

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 480

Brad Jacobs came from nowhere a few years ago, put in the blood, sweat, tears, time, sacrifice, and big bucks to make it work.

Adam Casey's doing it now out of PEI, and is holding his own in the OOM and CTRS rankings. Tremendous effort.

The teams that put in the work reap the rewards.

(Not disagreeing with the general consensus here - the Brier, for now, is still a great way to choose our national representative for World Championships. Just tired of seeing the same old anti-Slam arguments brought up here over and over again.)

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-03-14 02:57PM
radiowave is offline Click Here to See the Profile for radiowave Click here to Send radiowave a Private Message Find more posts by radiowave Add radiowave to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
radiowave
Hitting Paint

 

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: Ontario
Posts: 192

quote:
Originally posted by doubletakeout
Brad Jacobs came from nowhere a few years ago, put in the blood, sweat, tears, time, sacrifice, and big bucks to make it work.

Adam Casey's doing it now out of PEI, and is holding his own in the OOM and CTRS rankings. Tremendous effort.

The teams that put in the work reap the rewards.

(Not disagreeing with the general consensus here - the Brier, for now, is still a great way to choose our national representative for World Championships. Just tired of seeing the same old anti-Slam arguments brought up here over and over again.)



100 % agree.

__________________
Huge fan of Robots, Roald Dahl, Zoos, Kung Fu Movies and Buster Keaton!

I wonder about things, like, if we call an orange an "orange," then why don't we call a banana a "yellow" or an apple a "red"? Blueberries I understand, but will someone explain gooseberries to me?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-03-14 04:26PM
albetts is offline Click Here to See the Profile for albetts Click here to Send albetts a Private Message Find more posts by albetts Add albetts to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
albetts
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 1120

Adam Casey is doing so well playing out of PEI. I wish him and his team well as they go forward. They are working very hard and the results are showing. Good for them. Keep at it.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-03-14 04:49PM
Tour Guide is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Tour Guide Click here to Send Tour Guide a Private Message Find more posts by Tour Guide Add Tour Guide to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Tour Guide
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: May 2009
Location: Winfield and Richmond
Posts: 49

I think the crucial issue here is do we want the Brier to continue as an event that features players who truly represent their province or do we want it to feature some of the top teams in Canada. The Olympics and Grand Slams have changed the curling world such that it's no longer really feasible to obtain both goals at the same time. Players sometimes need the ability to form teams with curlers from other provinces in order to compete at the highest levels.

I wonder if it's realistic to think that someone like Glen Howard, with a Manitoban on his current team, would have one team for the WCT/Slams/Olympic stream and another, made up of strictly Ontario residents, only for the Ontario playdowns and chance to go to the Brier.

If the CCA were to insist that provincial teams at the Brier be made up strictly of provincial residents, then they would have to accept that some of the top teams would be ineligible to play in their showcase event. The old saying about follow the money might well then apply here, as the Brier's financial value might take a hit under this scenario.

Looking at it from the perspective of Team Canada being competitive at the world level, I think back to Brad Gushue's team at the Olympics. Would we really have wanted to stop Russ Howard from being part of that team because he didn't live in Newfoundland? Do we want the Canadian team at the world championship to be strictly composed of people who all live in the same province if it means possibly reducing the competitiveness of our national team?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-03-14 06:07PM
Gerry is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Gerry Click here to Send Gerry a Private Message Visit Gerry's homepage! Find more posts by Gerry Add Gerry to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Gerry
CZ Founder

 

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 4002

quote:
Originally posted by Shawzy
This is probably the stupidest idea I've heard yet. The problem that's emerging in curling is that there is a substantial gap between the top 10 or so funded, professional (let's not kid ourselves that they're amateur anymore) rinks and anyone trying to make it to that level. Events like the Canada Cup and the Grand Slams only emphasize this gap by excluding the lower-ranked teams and allowing the top-ranked teams to make more money and gain more points. The Men's Slam in the Soo was refreshing because we got to see teams like Bottcher who you wouldn't normally see. And since Bottcher got points at the Slam he's been able to qualify for the next one. However, 90% of the teams are still the same event to event.

Hansen is right when he says in the article that there are usually only 3-4 teams in with a shout at the Brier in a given year but that's largely a product of the "rich get richer" system that we have set up currently. In recent memory only Jacobs and McEwen have been able to crack the top group (and McEwen is debatable since he hasn't won any events where sponsorship is up for grabs). Jacobs had to go on a "cinderella" run to win the Brier and thus secure funding, which was only increased by winning the Olympics. Now Jacobs has entered the elite echelon but only one or two wins separates his rink from Jim Cotter's rink (who lost both the Trials and Brier finals last year, thus missing funding).

By making the invite-only Canada Cup the qualifying event for the Olympics and the Worlds you eliminate the ability of anyone outside the pre-established top 10 from breaking into said group. Currently, you can still go on a run and win the Brier or Scotties and thus break in, but if you're never given the opportunity because you play in Nova Scotia and cannot afford to travel to Slams or other big-money tour events then the divide will only get larger.

Combined with the issues at the junior level regarding the number of teams competing, this will thoroughly kill Canadian curling to the point that we'll have professionally contracted teams/players like Scotland and China and then no one else who can compete. A better alternative would be to open up events and tours participation-wise to give more teams the ability to win money and points and thus climb up the standings (and making it possible to have a truly professional curling league that isn't made up of just 5-10 teams).



Canada Cup and Grand Slams are all wide open. Go win games and you can qualify for both. Canada Cup was open to the Top points teams from last season.

Go earn the points, put in the work and the rewards come. Dumbing it down will only hurt Canada's position on the World Stage, which will hurt funding for the sport overall. Medals at the International level are one of the things funding is dependent upon. Whether we like it or not, it's the reality and Canada has to do what it takes to keep up to the rest of the world who are becoming professionals now.

__________________
CurlingZone
Everything...Curling!

Please click on our sponsors' banners periodically, as visiting their sites helps keep CurlingZone.com Free!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-03-14 06:13PM
misty1 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for misty1 Click here to Send misty1 a Private Message Find more posts by misty1 Add misty1 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
misty1
Supreme Champion!

 

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002

Absolutely not. I dont care what warren hansen has done in this case he is a moron. The brier will always be the biggest event and in no circumstance should the winner of the canada cup ever go to worlds.

should that ever actually come to pass i'd stop watching canadian curling. luckily it wont but the idea is just absurd.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-03-14 07:31PM
mcderm is offline Click Here to See the Profile for mcderm Click here to Send mcderm a Private Message Find more posts by mcderm Add mcderm to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
mcderm
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: guelph
Posts: 21

Is the talent pool so small in the provinces that teams need to look outside for players? Why are we trying to emulate the processes of other smaller curling countries, since our method of selecting representatives, Brier, Scotties, has served us well for many years. The demanding road to win these events has and should continue to produce the best that Canada has to offer on the world stage.
Having to live in the province you represent also helps to sustain the growth of curling in the provinces themselves, in a kind of trickle up theory...whereby younger dedicated curlers have the opportunity to move up the ranks as positions on competitive teams open up. Given the numbers of junior teams entering Ontario zones, men/46 and women/39 this year, I think young curlers may already have given up on that goal.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-03-14 07:50PM
nelski is offline Click Here to See the Profile for nelski Find more posts by nelski Add nelski to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
nelski
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Twin Snowbanks
Posts: 2068

quote:
Originally posted by mcderm
... Given the numbers of junior teams entering Ontario zones, men/46 and women/39 this year, I think young curlers may already have given up on that goal.


So with 5 athletes per team, that is 425 junior athletes shooting for the provincial title. Of course, soccer and hockey have larger teams than curling - so there will be more junior athletes in those sports. School sports are in a different category, regarding involvement. So I can think of gymnastics, aquatics, martial arts, and golf that also attract junior athletes. Is 400 such a small number?

__________________
Lots of major youth (<21) events. Nice for Murdoch... and us :-D.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-03-14 08:23PM
mcderm is offline Click Here to See the Profile for mcderm Click here to Send mcderm a Private Message Find more posts by mcderm Add mcderm to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
mcderm
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: guelph
Posts: 21

I think I'm safe to say that most junior teams have four players, bringing the total to 340 junior curlers. I also think that an even more telling and depressing figure is that exactly half of the sixteen zones in both junior mens and womens had two or less teams sign up to compete.
Mr Hansen's Canada Cup to replace Brier scenario will surely speed the downward spiral of the above figures.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-04-14 01:18AM
milobloom is offline Click Here to See the Profile for milobloom Click here to Send milobloom a Private Message Visit milobloom's homepage! Find more posts by milobloom Add milobloom to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
milobloom
Administrator

 

Registered: Mar 2005
Location: St. Albert
Posts: 839

Really enjoyed this statement from Warren referencing Brier (and possibly Scotties):

"It’s going to get hard to sell that as a legitimate competition when you have teams involved that don’t even rank in the top 100 of the CTRS and you have teams in the top five that aren’t there."

Perhaps one day Warren, but not in your lifetime.

Sorry, the "Brier" is not a legitimate competition? The CCA (and Sportsnet) seem to be struggling to sell these "legitimate events" to more than a few hundred people each draw.

The average fan still prefers province over team. That is clear based attendance at Grand Slams and yes, the made-to-compete-with-Grand-Slams Canada Cup.

I'm sure there's a greek myth somewhere about not being able to see the pit your in because it's too deep. Sorry, what was my point with that?

I was in Camrose today and the best reason it's a good venue for events was mentioned to me by a 73 year old who wanted to chat. "There are lots of Retire-ees".

I am 42 and was perhaps the 4th youngest person in the building.

Curling is growing in some ways but also becoming more niche, and to the same aging fan base. So is that a success?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-04-14 08:21AM
AlanMacNeill is offline Click Here to See the Profile for AlanMacNeill Click here to Send AlanMacNeill a Private Message Find more posts by AlanMacNeill Add AlanMacNeill to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
AlanMacNeill
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 1064

quote:
Originally posted by milobloom
Really enjoyed this statement from Warren referencing Brier (and possibly Scotties):

"It’s going to get hard to sell that as a legitimate competition when you have teams involved that don’t even rank in the top 100 of the CTRS and you have teams in the top five that aren’t there."



Wow....I thought it would be hard for the CCA to top the USCA's level of cluelessness, but he just managed the task...well done.

The top 5 of the CTRS is in the Brier competition (and the Scotties, for that matter).

The fact that they got eliminated in the preliminary rounds, away from the TV cameras, doesn't diminish the fact that they had a chance.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-04-14 11:52AM
Bubba12 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Bubba12 Click here to Send Bubba12 a Private Message Find more posts by Bubba12 Add Bubba12 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Bubba12
Knee-Slider

 

Registered: Oct 2014
Location:
Posts: 5

While I don't agree with the idea of using the Canada Cup to select our World teams, I do see the system slowly sliding in that direction. It wasn't that long ago that you had to have a true club affiliation to enter play downs, which is now gone as very few tour team members actually participate in any club leagues. Now it appears that provincial residency rules may be loosened to allow one or more imports, which has already informally happened in the past.

The only upside I see, is maybe this will give the Brier and Scotties back to the non professional curlers, if the pros are more interested in World titles, than Canadian titles.

Regardless, I think the Brier and Scotties will always substantially outdraw any WCT event, both in attendance and TV ratings.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-04-14 01:56PM
albetts is offline Click Here to See the Profile for albetts Click here to Send albetts a Private Message Find more posts by albetts Add albetts to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
albetts
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 1120

quote:
Originally posted by Bubba12


I think the Brier and Scotties will always substantially outdraw any WCT event, both in attendance and TV ratings. [/B]


The Brier and Scotties are so Canadian. Curlers strive to try and reach one of these two events. These events are also well attended. T.V. ratings ramp up when coverage of these events begin. I remember vacationing in Florida during the Scotties and scrambling around to locate a pub or restaurant showing the event. No luck. My brother in law taped the final game for my spouse and I and we watched it when we got home already knowing the winner.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-04-14 03:09PM
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shawzy
Guest

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry


Canada Cup and Grand Slams are all wide open. Go win games and you can qualify for both. Canada Cup was open to the Top points teams from last season.

Go earn the points, put in the work and the rewards come. Dumbing it down will only hurt Canada's position on the World Stage, which will hurt funding for the sport overall. Medals at the International level are one of the things funding is dependent upon. Whether we like it or not, it's the reality and Canada has to do what it takes to keep up to the rest of the world who are becoming professionals now.



Gerry, the issue is that teams are basically gifted points/money for participating in Grand Slams to an extent greater than the majority of other events across the country. For example, 13/15 Mens teams at the Masters left with points and money. Teams finishing 12th and 13th got $1500. Contrast that to the winners at the Mayflower Cashspiel in Halifax the same weekend who only earned $4000. You can't tell me that such a system promotes teams breaking into the top echelons of the game. The National also had 17/18 teams taking home points and money. When it costs money to travel to these events and even participate how do you expect teams to break into the top levels while teams are rewarded for simply showing up? And all that is before you factor in grants/funding. That some teams are doing trying to break through, most likely at extreme personal cost, is not a reason to justify sweeping the problem under the rug.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: 70.64.79.130

12-04-14 03:37PM
curler2014 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curler2014 Click here to Send curler2014 a Private Message Find more posts by curler2014 Add curler2014 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
curler2014
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Dec 2014
Location:
Posts: 56

quote:
Originally posted by fresca
The Feds give $2.5 mil a year to curling

$633,000 to 67 curlers for expenses

I believe the top 16 curlers get $50,000 each for 2 years and more is spent on training etc

Own the podium cost $5 mil

Every major curling event has 500 - 3000 volunteers

500,000 fans watch on tv generating millions of dollars of income annually

Host cities for Briers and Scots must pay the CCA a million $ plus per event

Every curler in Canada pays about $25 a year as fees to the CCA

Where does the money go ? There should be a public accounting of this operation -

The CCA is run like the world olympic committee - kinda mystic in nature with no public accounting that i have ever seen

How can the Federal Government fund an organisation like this that is so secretive ? Are Stremlaw and Hansen being paid $500,000 a year - what are the expenses for this organisation and why are they not reported anywhere ?



Your information is grossly inaccurate.

The CCA is not secretive in the least. Their mandate, policies and governance are all very well laid out on their website. Their financial statement and fiscal responsibilities are laid out there as well and are published in a yearly magazine that gets sent to your club and is readily available.

Let's not forget, or maybe if you educated yourself on the CCA and how it operates, that the CCA is a member run organization - any policy, procedure, event change that is suggested to happen by the CCA's board or Warren or anyone you don't like, has to be approved and voted on by the member associations (the provincial and territorial associations). So even relegation was not the "CCA's doing" - it was YOUR provincial or territorial association that voted to approve it in an almost unanimous vote...the majority of the smaller province and territories voted for it (so you can’t say it was the bigger ones who may never get relegated that overpowered the smaller ones), I believe PEI was the only one that voted against it. Go to your associations meetings and clubs meetings and voice your opinion there, get involved instead of throwing stones at people who didn't even make the changes.

The $25 per curler to the CCA is absurd and completely inaccurate. It is actually $85 per sheet at your club that is affiliated with the CCA. So at my club...4 sheets = $340 divided among the 250 members = a whopping $1.36 per curler paid to the CCA. And I know for a fact that our club is no where near capacity, so I suspect many, many people who are curlers in Canada actually pay less than $1.36. The bare minimum for a club to operate is likely about 50 people in a 2 sheet club, so even still that's another whopping $3.40 per curler. Wow, where does this money go?! This money goes directly to fund the events the CCA runs…oh wait…with roughly 500,000 curlers, even at the high estimate of $3.40, that’s about 1.5mil. WHOA THAT’S A LOT OF MONEY…WHERE DOES IT GO?! Ummm… the CCA has a ton of events at which the curlers pay for NOTHING (travel, hotels, playing surface, per diem, etc all paid for by the CCA). Even if we were to exclude the “elite” events like the Canada Cup, Continental Cup and the Trials, this 1.5mil comes no where close to covering the costs associated. The Brier alone costs the CCA 1-1.5mil when all is said and done. The CCA is the only national sporting body to cover anything more than the cost of providing the playing surface. No other pays for the competitors to get there, to stay there, etc. I can only imagine a time when the CCA cuts that out and the rocous the will ensue when it really should be the provincial associations responsibility or the competitors responsibility to get there and where they stay. Have a fundraiser at your club – I’m sure you’ll make enough to pay for your travel and hotel, but oh no, the CCA HAS TO PAY BECAUSE THEY HAVE MONEY TO BURN AND NOTHING SHOULD EVER CHANGE. If that were the case, then how about we all get the train to the Brier like they used…things change.

The events that we curlers "pay to play in" are actually majority funded by sponsors - so they need to be appeased. If you want the Brier to look and feel the way it does in huge arenas with the television coverage it gets - like it or not, Tim Hortons, TSN and everyone who actually funds these events need to be happy.

Ok rant over.

And yes, if you want to go to worlds or the Olympics – start training like a world class athlete. Enough with the handouts already.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-04-14 05:47PM
Borough Boy is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Borough Boy Click here to Send Borough Boy a Private Message Find more posts by Borough Boy Add Borough Boy to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Borough Boy
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Oct 2007
Location:
Posts: 48

Wow, please don't tell me just compared the Mayflower Classic field to a Grand Slam field.

The points that are awarded at a Grand Salm event are well deserved. If you look at the teams at the event in Selkirk, there were absolutely no gimme games, in fact I looked at that field and literally shook my head at how good it was. A win against a Howrd, McEwen, Koe etc SHOULD be worth more.

There are ways to get into these events, young teams like Bottcher, Laycock etc got there by playing well on the cash circuit and gaining enough to get in.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-04-14 05:57PM
AlanMacNeill is offline Click Here to See the Profile for AlanMacNeill Click here to Send AlanMacNeill a Private Message Find more posts by AlanMacNeill Add AlanMacNeill to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
AlanMacNeill
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 1064

Except here's your problem...

"To get into Grand Slams, you need to get points"

"Okay, great, how do I get points?"

"You participate in spiels which award points"

"Excellent, how do I get into those?"

"Invitations are given out on the basis of your point standings"


You should see the issue there...it's a self perpetuating system, play in a Grand Slam and you get points, because the folks with the most points are there, how are they there? Well, because they've played in previous Grand Slams...of course...

Might as well just admit it, create a Premiere League of Curling and give up any pretense of anyone being able to crack the top.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-04-14 06:25PM
Borough Boy is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Borough Boy Click here to Send Borough Boy a Private Message Find more posts by Borough Boy Add Borough Boy to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Borough Boy
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Oct 2007
Location:
Posts: 48

quote:
Originally posted by AlanMacNeill
Except here's your problem...

"To get into Grand Slams, you need to get points"

"Okay, great, how do I get points?"

"You participate in spiels which award points"

"Excellent, how do I get into those?"

"Invitations are given out on the basis of your point standings"


You should see the issue there...it's a self perpetuating system, play in a Grand Slam and you get points, because the folks with the most points are there, how are they there? Well, because they've played in previous Grand Slams...of course...

Might as well just admit it, create a Premiere League of Curling and give up any pretense of anyone being able to crack the top.





How did Botcher, Casey, Blandford and Kean get in to the National? I think the fact is the best teams are in the slams because, well they are the best teams. There are 4 examples of newer teams playing in a slam..................

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

12-04-14 09:35PM
Gerry is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Gerry Click here to Send Gerry a Private Message Visit Gerry's homepage! Find more posts by Gerry Add Gerry to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Gerry
CZ Founder

 

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 4002

quote:
Originally posted by Shawzy


Gerry, the issue is that teams are basically gifted points/money for participating in Grand Slams to an extent greater than the majority of other events across the country. For example, 13/15 Mens teams at the Masters left with points and money. Teams finishing 12th and 13th got $1500. Contrast that to the winners at the Mayflower Cashspiel in Halifax the same weekend who only earned $4000. You can't tell me that such a system promotes teams breaking into the top echelons of the game. The National also had 17/18 teams taking home points and money. When it costs money to travel to these events and even participate how do you expect teams to break into the top levels while teams are rewarded for simply showing up? And all that is before you factor in grants/funding. That some teams are doing trying to break through, most likely at extreme personal cost, is not a reason to justify sweeping the problem under the rug.



Gifted?

You compare the Mayflower events with the Slams, but don't seem the realize there's many events more valuable than that one event. Winning the Mayflower was worth about 6.5 points, and if you did that 7 more times, it would put you into the conversation for being close to the Slams. Have a good start to the next season and the invite is there. And that's players smaller regional tour type events. Many teams don't have the budget to play a bigger season than regionally, but winning these events you can bank some dollars to play some bigger events. Where there's more points available.

There's many WCT events in the 3.5-5 SFM where you can go out an earn some real points. Take a look at what Adam Casey did this year. Started out with 36 points, ranked 28th on the Order of Merit. Brendan Bottcher was 29th with 33 points.

They put in the work and won games.

31 men's teams played in the Slams last year when the typical field is 15-18 teams. 24 teams in 2012/13 season after removing the Tier 2 teams from the Masters and 23 teams have played the first 3 Slams this year. It's not all the same teams in these events.

One thing to also consider about the points is that the points per win are much more valuable to the teams on the fringes of the Slams. Teams can only count their best 8 results each season, so the top teams don't usually earn points that they will end up keeping unless they get deep into the playoffs. The teams in the bottom half of the field will get some points for valuable wins, and come away with something.

You could suggest the same thing about the Brier, where teams earn points per win as well. It's about being rewarded for qualifying for the event and the opportunity to earn some points.

Its the teams on the fringes who earn (and use) these points per win, and based on the number of teams playing in Slams, turnover in the bottom of the field is not a problem either.

__________________
CurlingZone
Everything...Curling!

Please click on our sponsors' banners periodically, as visiting their sites helps keep CurlingZone.com Free!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

All times are GMT. The time now is . Post New Thread   Post A Reply
Page 1 of 2 -- Go to: | 1 | 2 | »»   Last Thread   Next Thread
Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to thisThread

Forum Jump:
Rate This Thread:

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 

Curling Scores

M: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: M7 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 8:00pm CT
Lannoye Final
Hebert (10) Watch Live Curling!
Fitzgerald 10th
Cenzalli  Watch Live Curling!
Brenden Final
Church (9) Watch Live Curling!
Guentzel Final
Rose (6) Watch Live Curling!
W: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: W6 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 4:00pm CT
Berg Final
Scheel (10) Watch Live Curling!
Berg Final
Schapman (10) Watch Live Curling!
Giroux 10  Final
Pekowitz (9) Watch Live Curling!
Viau Final
Johnson (10) Watch Live Curling!
M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Fri, Mar 22 -- 1:00pm AT
Lott/Lott Final
Walk/Muyr (8) Watch Live Curling!
M: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 3:00am ET
Caccivio Final
Brauchli 12  (EE)
Dryburgh Final
Ringgenberg (9)
W: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 9:00am CET
Schwaller Final
Oberson (9)
Blackham Final
von Arx (9)
W: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 11:00am MT
Stroeder Final
Delorey (7)
M: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 1:00pm ET
Delorey Final
Lockhart (EE)
Full Scoreboard  |  Play Fantasy Pick'em!  

Recent News

Recent
Homan Brings Home Gold

Homan Brings Home Gold

Sydney, Canada - In front of a full house with over 4,000 spectators, Canada (photo: Stephen Fisher, World Curling) beat Switzerland by 7-5 to take gold at the BKT Tires World Women's Curling Championship 2024.

Curling Photos

Recent

Curling Blogs

Facebook Feed

Twitter Feed

To top ↑