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MBTuck
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 70

I thought a playoff would make the most sense. Giving it to the top team could be "dangerous". A team like Jacobs could lose the finals knowing they are gtd the spot while not only making the brier field softer for themselves but also potentially helping out friends/people in their home province.

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Old Post 03-14-17 07:59PM
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dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 853

quote:
Originally posted by Three


Source?



reliable source

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Old Post 03-14-17 10:10PM
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Stoner
Drawmaster

Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 618

Here I was looking forward to Gushue playing relegation in 2 years.

How exactly are they going to determine the playoff teams with this format, it just looks like they have made things worse.

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Old Post 03-29-17 06:34AM
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Gerry
CZ Founder

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 3885

quote:
Originally posted by Stoner
Here I was looking forward to Gushue playing relegation in 2 years.

How exactly are they going to determine the playoff teams with this format, it just looks like they have made things worse.



Top 4 teams in the Championship pool play the Page playoff system just like they do now.

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Old Post 03-29-17 09:35AM
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nelski
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Hill Bottom Corner
Posts: 1601

quote:
Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
reliable source

I really like this. Strong runners-up - eg, McEwen, Carruthers, Epping, Laycock get another shot. I cannot see anyone "throwing" a provincial final, or semi, for the "chance" for this opportunity, but a faint-hope game for a team that is world calibre - #ohYeah. None of the teams would turn this down.

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Old Post 03-29-17 10:26AM
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Stoner
Drawmaster

Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 618

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry


Top 4 teams in the Championship pool play the Page playoff system just like they do now.



So the teams from each pool will go into another pool later, ok.

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Old Post 03-29-17 04:42PM
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Stoner
Drawmaster

Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 618

How exactly are they going to figure out who the 16th team will be, that outta be good.

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Old Post 03-30-17 05:16AM
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Netz
Swing Artist

Registered: Oct 2002
Location:
Posts: 215

quote:
Originally posted by jamcan
However, here's hoping this is a one year experiment and we return to a saner, 12 team format with only one team representing the Yukon, NWT and Nunavut.


That would add up to 13 teams.

10 provinces
Northern Ontario
Canada
Territories

or

Do you propose dropping Canada ?

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Old Post 03-30-17 07:47AM
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dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 853

quote:
Originally posted by Stoner
How exactly are they going to figure out who the 16th team will be, that outta be good.


The top two ctrs point teams that played in their playdowns but did not qualify will play a one game playdown Friday night for the spot.

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Old Post 03-30-17 12:32PM
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Three
Swing Artist

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 249

quote:
Originally posted by Netz


That would add up to 13 teams.

10 provinces
Northern Ontario
Canada
Territories

or

Do you propose dropping Canada ?




I don't mind going from 12 to 13 teams. Adds 12 more games to RR. There is already space for an extra draw on the first Saturday and the Monday. Would need to do opening ceremonies and one draw on Friday night to get it done. I would love to watch a Friday night draw the first week-end.

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Old Post 03-30-17 03:24PM
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curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2025

The juniors and mixed have a round robin but no team Canada...just the provinces and territories. Maybe time for the Briar and Scotties to consider the same.

You want to go, you have to win your province (well in some cases, just sign up and go).

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Old Post 03-30-17 03:43PM
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Stoner
Drawmaster

Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 618

quote:
Originally posted by dugless_zone 13


The top two ctrs point teams that played in their playdowns but did not qualify will play a one game playdown Friday night for the spot.



Ok, so some province will get an extra team, essentially defeating the purpose of provincials, I wonder how everyone feels about that.

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Old Post 03-30-17 06:19PM
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Stumpy
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2016
Location: Ontario
Posts: 44

quote:
Originally posted by Stoner


Ok, so some province will get an extra team, essentially defeating the purpose of provincials, I wonder how everyone feels about that.



If by "everyone" you mean the players the support is quite high.

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Old Post 03-31-17 07:22AM
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Three
Swing Artist

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 249

quote:
Originally posted by Stumpy


If by "everyone" you mean the players the support is quite high.



If you go back to social media when Curling Canda first announced a one year trial of pool play at the Brier and Scotties quite a few of the bigger names did not like it at all and probably still don't. Of course these players look like the "bad guys" for not allowing the sign and go players into the sandbox to play. Of course now that the two best teams not in get a last chance play-in game everybody will be on board with the stupidity of pool play.

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Old Post 03-31-17 11:20AM
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jamcan
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2144

If you want a preview of why the 2 pool idea is flawed, look no further than this years Canadian Senior Men's.

After Preliminary Pool play was done both had numerous teams tied with 3-3 records and teams were not eliminated by tie-breakers but, as I understand it, on head-to-head and draw to the button records. Hardly a good way to solve ties at a national championship.

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Old Post 03-31-17 05:44PM
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WrongHandle
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 67

How about if the runner up's province from the previous Brier also gets an extra spot. So there would be two teams from the runner's province and two teams from the winning provice but one would be Team Canada. They can both where the province's colours.

And yes Newfoundland could have two spots if Gushue finished second one year, but one would be his again likely.

It would help promote curling across the country as there would actually be a chance for teams from Northern Ontario and Newfoundland and other remote locals to get into the show once in awhile which is important for grassroots development and eventual turnover at the Elite level.

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Old Post 03-31-17 07:04PM
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milobloom
Drawmaster

Registered: Mar 2005
Location: St. Albert
Posts: 817

quote:
Originally posted by jamcan
If you want a preview of why the 2 pool idea is flawed, look no further than this years Canadian Senior Men's.

After Preliminary Pool play was done both had numerous teams tied with 3-3 records and teams were not eliminated by tie-breakers but, as I understand it, on head-to-head and draw to the button records. Hardly a good way to solve ties at a national championship.



Alberta actually qualified in the tie-break based on draws to button, but the two teams that didn't get into the championship pool had beaten them.

They have to figure out how to deal with tie-breakers properly. And is there draw time allocated to do so? Now maybe they have to leave a draw open in the middle of the week to handle it.

Will be interesting.

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Old Post 04-01-17 12:29AM
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
Swing Artist

Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 422

5 sheets

I know there has been arguments here in the past for keeping it at 4 sheets for the photographers between sheets, however, the simplest thing to solve the problem here is to have 5 sheets. By the time you hit mid week, it takes 2-3 less draws to get in the first round robin games leaving lots of room for tie break games. Elimination should NEVER be a result of draw scores.

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Old Post 04-01-17 10:35AM
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Maritime99
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Brantford
Posts: 12

Maybe they should allow the hosting province 2 teams. Would help with crowds! They do this in Major Junior Hockey for the Memorial Cup!

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Old Post 04-01-17 11:45AM
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jamcan
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2144

quote:
Originally posted by milobloom


Alberta actually qualified in the tie-break based on draws to button, but the two teams that didn't get into the championship pool had beaten them.

They have to figure out how to deal with tie-breakers properly. And is there draw time allocated to do so? Now maybe they have to leave a draw open in the middle of the week to handle it.

Will be interesting.



I agree. At a quick glance, I don't see how you can allot the time for mid-week tie breakers when you might need additional time at the end of the week for Championship Pool tie-breakers. Unless you make the event run longer than it already does.

But the Seniors situation does point out, quite dramatically, the foolishness of the two pool set up and why keeping the number of teams to its current limit should be the priority.

There's a valid discussion to be had about how and who should make up those entries. But its better than the debacle we're going to face next year.

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Old Post 04-01-17 04:14PM
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BobbyS
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Apr 2015
Location:
Posts: 26

I think it could be accomplished to allow some time for tie-breakers for both situations, if you are willing to play a draw opening Saturday morning. Any discussion for the Brier/Scotties has not talked about a seeding pool (like they have at Juniors/Seniors); therefore, I assume there is not one of those.
Two groups of 8 on 4 sheets requires 7 draws each. Then 8 teams playing the 4 teams they haven't played yet would require 4 draws. Here is what the schedule would be:

Opening Saturday
Morning Pool A1
Afternoon Pool B1
Evening Pool A2

Opening Sunday
Morning Pool B2
Afternoon Pool A3
Evening Pool B3

Monday
Morning Pool A4
Afternoon Pool B4
Evening Pool A5

Tuesday
Morning Pool B5
Afternoon Pool A6
Evening Pool B6

Wednesday
Morning Pool A7
Afternoon Pool B7
Evening Tie-Breakers if necessary (If they don't play Saturday morning, they push all the draws down 1, and would play a midnight tie-breaker if you need 2).

Thursday
Morning Tie-Breakers if necessary
Afternoon Playoff Pool 1
Evening Playoff Pool 2

Friday
Morning OPEN
Afternoon Playoff Pool 3
Evening Playoff Pool 4

Saturday
Morning Tie-Breakers if necessary
Afternoon Page 1-2 Game & tie-breaker if necessary
Evening Page 3-4 Game

Sunday
Morning Semi-Final
Afternoon Bronze Game
Evening Gold Game

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Old Post 04-02-17 06:02PM
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