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11-23-14 12:00PM
JB42 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for JB42 Click here to Send JB42 a Private Message Find more posts by JB42 Add JB42 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
JB42
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Battle of the new Titans

Caveat: Both teams believe there is no shot they can't make. The following is merely a description of tendencies over the long term. Or at least what I see as their tendencies.
-------------------------------------------------------------

The final of the National seems likely to be a sign of things to come over this next Olympic cycle. First off the two teams are currently ranked 1 and 2 in the world. Jacobs a slivery 1.6 points ahead of McEwen. 371 to 369.41. With McEwen ahead in the money standings. Team Jacobs the hottest team in the last year and a half, and Team McEwen the hottest team of this season.

So on the line today. A Grand Slam title. Jacob's first. The World Number 1 ranking. And of course a bit of coin.

There is also a fascinating contrast in terms of style with these two teams. Team Jacobs pioneering an increased reliance on the runback as well as the ability to throw the rock harder than any other team out there. And how do these two teams match up on that score? E.J. Harnden is arguably the hardest thrower in the world. My best guess is that Wozniak is the hardest thrower on Team McEwen. So that'll be a fun match-up to watch. Speaking of which.

REQUEST TO GERRY: Can you time the hardest throws of the game and get back to us on who is the hardest hitter. A suggestion. Only count the shots that are made. Kinda like the long drive stat in golf only counting if it is in the fairway.

Fry and Neufeld seem pretty even on the hit-o-meter while my guess is that Brad throws it quite a bit harder than Mike. I was at the Stu Sells in October and timed a bunch of run-backs and peels. The only throws that I caught under six seconds where E.J. and Johnny Mead.

Watching Team McEwen this year I've noticed that they do things differently not only from Team Jacobs but differently from almost everyone on tour. E.g. In a game against Stoughton this week they had a choice. They didn't have last rock. They were one up. On their last rock they could hit shot rock to lie two and force Jeff to take one. Or they could do what they did and draw around the centre guard. Given how much the ice curls on the Grand Slam ice this is quite a risk. I.e. Jeff can follow you down with a little more weight and score two. Mike buried it, slightly over buried, and Jeff threw a little too much weight and only ticked shot rock giving up a steal of one and now McEwen is two up.

Again I'm guessing. But I think their reasoning goes like this. If they give up the two they are still only one down with. If on the other hand they steal they now have clear control. Also on the draw you can get over-buried making the tap back much more difficult than is generally believed. I.e. Will be missed more times than it's made. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, if you over-bury the only high percentage shot that is really there is a one foot tap for one. So you still get the force while giving yourself a much better chance at the steal.

This is a new approach. The vast majority of teams on Tour would hit in that situation. In my opinion McEwen's got the factoring of the risks and the percentages right in this case. In no small part because they are going to over-bury the draw and put it top button a high percentage of the time.

So at the top of the heap we once again, like in the days of Howard and Martin, have two teams that solve their problems differently. A contrast in both weight and the risks they take.
The risk with Jacob's being the wrong side inch, McEwen's being needing a miss from the other skip.


There is no right or wrong in this contrast. It will however be a real treat watching to see who solves the most problems today.

Last edited by JB42 on 11-23-14 at 12:08PM

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11-23-14 01:43PM
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radiowave
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The only two guys I can think of who might be able to match E.J.'s fastball are Koe and Edin.....There are a bunch of guys who can throw the 95 mph heater, but these three are in the Nolan Ryan 100 mph + territory.

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11-23-14 03:43PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
Don't think any front-enders are in EJ country.
Yes Mead can let it fly - so can Koe.

If Jacobs gang is on form i don't think Mike can withstand them. But 8 end will tell.



i think its the other way around. if mcewen and company are on form jacobs wont win. although im sure the jacobs rink would love revenge since mcewen has spanked them in both of their meetings this year. combined scores of 13-3 in mcewen's favor

i think mcewen is really the perfect counter to jacobs and thats why brad has has so much trouble against him before.

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11-23-14 08:06PM
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A really good game by Team McEwen. They had the advantage in most ends. The only thing they didn't do was put away the chances they had in ends one and two.

But as Mike said in the post game interview their 'recovery' from these disappointments was excellent. The term recovery being a sport psychology term for not blowing the team chemistry up with negativity when things don't go your way.

The game was another really strong recommendation for the five rock rule.

We have the first indications of two strategy modifications in today's game. Firstly when the game is tied there seems to be a little less fear about giving up the steal of one if there is a chance to take a shot for a multiple score. I think the reason for this change in the risk reward calculation is that the teams know that every time you have the hammer you are going to have a better chance at getting two than you used to. So if you make it great you are up two. If you don't get a two. next end and you're back in the lead.

The second change seems to be that protecting a lead will no longer be about making one double peel. Instead teams are opting to protect with offence. I.e. Putting up a guard with their third rock instead of what always happened in the past, starting to peel as soon as you can.

Both changes are positive from a fan point of view. I.e. From an increasing offence point of view and from a making a comeback possible point of view.

In today's game McEwen had a two point lead heading into 8. This has been a routine scenario as predictable as cold in an Edmonton winter. I.e. Start peeling with second's rocks and make one double and it's over. Something that happened with such regularity as to be yawn inducing.

Today instead we saw rocks in play. Team McEwen had to make two great run-back take-outs and Jacobs still had a shot on last rock for a deuce. Quite simply both a world apart from the former rule and orders of magnitude more fun.

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11-24-14 09:29AM
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I thought it was very interesting to hear Kevin Martin's comments on strategy, particularly what Mike was doing. I felt Kevin thought there was some bad calls made but in the end Mike had control of the game and the win so who was right?

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11-24-14 09:43AM
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quote:
Originally posted by deadhead
I thought it was very interesting to hear Kevin Martin's comments on strategy, particularly what Mike was doing. I felt Kevin thought there was some bad calls made but in the end Mike had control of the game and the win so who was right?


well any strategy is the right strategy as long as your team executes it

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11-24-14 10:59AM
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I don't think there is such a thing as best in the world. Maybe best for a spiel or even for a series but as curling goes teams have good runs and bad runs.

There are a number of teams that can win or lose on any given day.

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11-24-14 12:45PM
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Kevin was o.k. with the calls that Mike made in end 1 and 2. Mike Harris on the other hand was ambivalent about the first and against the one in the second. Neither of them worked out but as Misty says, strategy must be accompanied by execution.

In the fifth end Kevin disagreed with a call by Team McEwen.
I.e. With the game tied and with the hammer McEwen could have peeled the center guard.

Doing so would have left only one rock in play a McEwen stone in the house. In other words 99/100 McEwen would have got the blank in five. Meaning a two hammer to one advantage with three ends left.

What Martin termed 'a huge advantage'. Instead McEwen went around the center guard to lie two. Jacobs followed that by sticking the runback so that he had both a rock in the house and it was guarded. This made the blank much more difficult for McEwen, and while they came close they were instead forced to one.

I think that if you asked Mike he would agree with Kevin that they should have peeled in that situation. In fact that is what Mike originally called, he deferred to his teammates in playing the come around.

In the seventh Jacobs made a very similar call to the ones that Mike had been making. I.e. Playing the tough shot for the extra point. Like Mike it didn't work out. I liked the call, and neither Kevin or Mike seemed to have a problem with it. My only quibble would be that they should have played the other turn. By playing the inturn the rock they were promoting came into the rings with an out-turn spin. If you look at the shot again if it had an in-turn rotation even with hitting in the same spot he might have made it.

All in all I thought the game was very well called by both skips. It is obvious however that there is quite a lot of experimentation going as the players adjust to the five rock rule. Adding yet another layer of interest for we on the sidelines.

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11-24-14 12:53PM
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I'd venture to say that if you took a poll of the WCT players right now you'd get a large majority who agreed that Team McEwen is the best team in the world.

Six events, six finals, five wins. Including two Grand Slam finals and a Grand Slam win.

That's more than just a spiel or three, this is dominance on a level that is very rarely seen in curling. Martin, and Middaugh are the only ones that I remember ever doing something similar.

This streak by McEwen and the level of play they are showing week in and week out should be recognized for what it is. Something pretty damn special.

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11-24-14 01:45PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JB42
I'd venture to say that if you took a poll of the WCT players right now you'd get a large majority who agreed that Team McEwen is the best team in the world.

Six events, six finals, five wins. Including two Grand Slam finals and a Grand Slam win.

That's more than just a spiel or three, this is dominance on a level that is very rarely seen in curling. Martin, and Middaugh are the only ones that I remember ever doing something similar.

This streak by McEwen and the level of play they are showing week in and week out should be recognized for what it is. Something pretty damn special.



it is great but its honestly nothing new from the. maybe they havent been this successful before however martin also pointed out earlier that they always seem to do well like this and then after christmas is when they start to struggle.and then we all know how they've yet to make the provincial break through. The fact that they do tend to tail off after christmas is why im not writing them in for anything right now, including a provincial title. If however they keep this level up after the break then i probably would

we'll see if anything changes this year though

Last edited by misty1 on 11-24-14 at 01:49PM

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11-24-14 01:53PM
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IMO the difference in the demeanour of the team is the single biggest reason they are having so much success this season. In the past if things went a bit awry the team became sullen and in a funk that doomed them in that game. Their work with a sports pyschologist this year has so far proven to be the best thing that could have chosen to do . I for one hope they continue on this streak of great curling and finally get to the big show repping Manitoba.

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11-24-14 01:54PM
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i agree, i like that they are finally showing some positive emotion. i think one of the biggest complaints was how boring they could be because they never showed anything positive

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11-24-14 02:21PM
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McEwen the best? His team is definitely playing the best so far this year, so I'll leave it at that. And I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Howard or Koe from the Jacobs V McEwen marquee just yet. Glenn can still generate easy offence better then anyone and Koe's team still hasn't hit it's stride yet.

But yes, long term I think Jacobs V McEwen will have much more traction.

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Last edited by radiowave on 11-24-14 at 02:26PM

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11-24-14 02:40PM
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I would have to agree. McEwen has only lost what, 5 games this season? I dare anyone to dispute their #1 status. Yesterday was a great final featuring the two best in the world, hopefully they continue on playing great right through the season

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11-24-14 03:31PM
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Between 2 years ago and last year, finishing at the Cactus Pheasant Classic, McEwen played in 8 straight finals, winning two. In 2011/12, they won 5 Finals, losing one. In 2010/11 they won 6 Finals, losing one.

They've ranked #1 overall on the Order of Merit in the past and have returned back to that status again. While they haven't won Manitoba, it's one event they have mastered yet.

The Brier is likely the one event that holds McEwen back from being the unquestioned #1 ranked team. In the meantime, I believe they're the best team in the game, though it's certainly going to take winning Manitoba for most others to see it.

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11-25-14 12:10AM
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quote:
Originally posted by misty1


well any strategy is the right strategy as long as your team executes it



Sorry, but I disagree. If it is not the last shot, a poor strategy with perfect execution can still result in a deuce or trey for your opponent.

On the last shot, you can argue the correct call is the one that is made but over the long haul, a skip who is making incorrect calls too often will show on the scoreboard and in the win column.

Lots of good discussion here. New CWM to coming soon to cover these points and more.

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11-25-14 01:11AM
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Oh, ML. You need to go back and watch that Olympic semi-final again. Yes, Eve made a great double. Yes, Jennifer made a great draw. But you're really exaggerating the circumstances for both. Two great shots under pressure, but nowhere near as difficult as you keep describing them.

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Eau Claire, WI
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Lannoye Final
Hebert (10) Watch Live Curling!
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Guentzel Final
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