Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Burlington
Posts: 638

Mindless cheques to OCA

Mindless cheques to OCA....

Well it's that time of year when Clubs across Ontario mindlessly write cheques in the amount of thousands of dollars to the OCA while searching for funds to do that much need roof repair or rink upgrade.

It absolutely astonishes me that Boards of Directors do this every year without question while struggling for funds to keep the lights on and roof over their heads, never questioning the value of the OCA to a club or the money the various governments give to the OCA to support their operation (mainly salaries) with no value to the club what so ever.

At the very least you would think Clubs would put the OCA membership as an option on their membership application and let the member themselves chose to (or not to) join OCA and pay the fee themselves!

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Well Larry, are you going to start to oversee the endless events the OCA organizes, attends, umpires, and scorekeeps.

The Dominion Men's Club Championship 2013
The Dominion Women's Club Championship 2013
Pepsi Junior Women
Pepsi Junior Men
Scotties Tournament of Hearts
Tim Hortons Master Women
Tim Hortons Master Men
Best Western Women's Challenge
Fairfield Marriott Challenge
The Dominion Tankard
The Dominion Wheelchair Championship
OCA Bantam Girls
OCA Bantam Boys
The Dominion Senior Women
The Dominion Senior Men
Best Western Intermediate Women
Best Western Intermediate Men
Tim Hortons Trophy
Tim Hortons Colts

I do not work for the OCA, or am in any way affiliated with them. Have I been a beneficiary of some of the events they oversee. 100% I have. Any if you have kids, they get to benefit too.

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If your club members do not participate in OCA events then there really is no reason to join the OCA. I don't know what the dues are. I'd imagine a club would save several thousand dollars by not joining.

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The OCA fees are passed on to the players/members anyways. The charge is $25/yr/player. Larry I'm thinkin your nose is out of joint for the wrong reasons. Have you ever applied to the OCA for grants for your roof repair or rink upgrade.
Check their website for the following:


Loans and Grants


OCA Member Club Assistance Fund

In 2003, the Ontario Curling Association established a fund called the OCA MEMBER CLUB ASSISTANCE FUND (OCA MCAF) as a vehicle to lend money to affiliated curling clubs so that the clubs can renovate or refurbish their premises. The OCA MCAF was established in response to the need for curling clubs to undertake capital projects that would not be eligible under other existing Ontario programs.

Please view the following three documents, in pdf format, for information, application form, bylaw, and loan agreeement for this fund.

�Information and application form
�Bylaw
�Loan Agreement

CCA Club Development Fund

The CCA Board of Directors created the Club Development Fund as a means to assist member curling clubs with capital projects. The Association's policy states that all donations received will be placed in this fund for the future benefit of curling clubs. CCA Club Development Fund.


Ontario Trillium Foundation

Each year the Ontario Trillium Foundation makes approximately 1,500 grants to not-for-profit and charitable organizations. These grants invest in activities that have local impact on one or more communities within an area. To get more details check www.trilliumfoundation.org. The Ontario Trillium Foundation is responding to the need for capital funding by raising the limits for its grants to $150,000. There is also a simplified application process for small capital grants from the Ontario Trillium Foundation.

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Burlington
Posts: 638

quote:

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Originally posted by Unregistered
The OCA fees are passed on to the players/members anyways. The charge is $25/yr/player. Larry I'm thinkin your nose is out of joint for the wrong reasons. Have you ever applied to the OCA for grants for your roof repair or rink upgrade.
Check their website for the following:


Loans and Grants


OCA Member Club Assistance Fund

In 2003, the Ontario Curling Association established a fund called the OCA MEMBER CLUB ASSISTANCE FUND (OCA MCAF) as a vehicle to lend money to affiliated curling clubs so that the clubs can renovate or refurbish their premises. The OCA MCAF was established in response to the need for curling clubs to undertake capital projects that would not be eligible under other existing Ontario programs.

Please view the following three documents, in pdf format, for information, application form, bylaw, and loan agreeement for this fund.

�Information and application form
�Bylaw
�Loan Agreement

CCA Club Development Fund

The CCA Board of Directors created the Club Development Fund as a means to assist member curling clubs with capital projects. The Association's policy states that all donations received will be placed in this fund for the future benefit of curling clubs. CCA Club Development Fund.


Ontario Trillium Foundation

Each year the Ontario Trillium Foundation makes approximately 1,500 grants to not-for-profit and charitable organizations. These grants invest in activities that have local impact on one or more communities within an area. To get more details check www.trilliumfoundation.org. The Ontario Trillium Foundation is responding to the need for capital funding by raising the limits for its grants to $150,000. There is also a simplified application process for small capital grants from the Ontario Trillium Foundation.

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Burlington
Posts: 638

quote:

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Originally posted by Unregistered
Well Larry, are you going to start to oversee the endless events the OCA organizes, attends, umpires, and scorekeeps.

The Dominion Men's Club Championship 2013
The Dominion Women's Club Championship 2013
Pepsi Junior Women
Pepsi Junior Men
Scotties Tournament of Hearts
Tim Hortons Master Women
Tim Hortons Master Men
Best Western Women's Challenge
Fairfield Marriott Challenge
The Dominion Tankard
The Dominion Wheelchair Championship
OCA Bantam Girls
OCA Bantam Boys
The Dominion Senior Women
The Dominion Senior Men
Best Western Intermediate Women
Best Western Intermediate Men
Tim Hortons Trophy
Tim Hortons Colts

I do not work for the OCA, or am in any way affiliated with them. Have I been a beneficiary of some of the events they oversee. 100% I have. Any if you have kids, they get to benefit too.

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Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:

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Originally posted by Unregistered
... The OCA MCAF was established in response to the need for curling clubs to undertake capital projects that would not be eligible under other existing Ontario programs.

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Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:

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Originally posted by Guest


So if you can't get a grant that is funded by your provincial tax dollars you can get a grant funded by your curling dues.

The government in this country is so generous.

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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: Weyburn, Let's put an end to socialism, Sask
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quote:

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Originally posted by lolar3288


Well it's not really funded by your curling dues....it is a interest bearing loan from the OCA so like everything else they do it costs the clubs and makes money for OCA, just like all the so called programs they run. All OCA training programs come with a fee and the OCA expects the clubs to donate space and time as well.

So in summary:

Clubs and club volunteers run the OCA events, pay for the overhead and costs, OCA at best records the results that the club volunteers send them.

If you have an OCA training course it's the club or the individuals that pay for it as well as the facility.

If you get a loan from OCA you pay bank type interest so you may as well go to the bank in the first place. Use the $5,000 you send to OCA membership and pay the $20,000 back to the bank and the loan is clear in 4 - 5 years

OCA/CCA's close relationship with it's sister money pit the CAC has resulted in a shortage of Certified Coaches (Certified as opposed to trained and qualified which is totally different) and the collapse of several junior and bantam programs in several clubs.

So why join OCA (as a club) in the first place and pay thousands of dollars for membership that you get nothing for? What's the business case? All you are doing is paying salaries and expenses of an organization (OCA) that doesn't even promote curling to the 97% of the population that doesn't curl.

I can see having OCA membership as an option and let each individual member make the decision.

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Registered: Dec 2012
Location: BC, Ontario (and a few other places too...)
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I think the same applies for any club with any provincial/territorial association. If the club feels that they have no need for the services of the OCA and do not have any members interested in curling in competitive OCA events, then they do need to ask themselves whether they should be a member or not.

I do have a problem sometimes with certain provincial curling associations taking advantage of their member clubs when it comes to hosting events and the like. The risks are carried by the clubs, not by the provincial curling associations (yes, Curl BC, I'm looking at you too). And while I do take advantage of the opportunities that the OCA/Curl BC provide (and yes, I curl in both provinces... don't ask), there are times I think they need to be reminded that there needs to be a return on the investment we make to those provincial associations.

Just like any investment, if there isn't a return on it, you have to question what you're doing. But it's up to the individual club memberships to let their directors and boards hear about these issues instead of just accepting it as the price of curling.

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Registered: Mar 2009
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When you really think about it.....why should OCA change?

Reality, they act like the King of the Castle and no one challenges it. Actually they are the Castle beggar with their hand out ...and telling you how much money you should give them, where they are going to sleep and how you can serve them!

And they are receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars without question!

I can't understand why all clubs just don't add a line to their membership form that is optional membership to OCA and submit only the people and dues collected specifically for OCA. It addresses all issues.

Maybe OCA would start justifying their existence by starting a major curling advertising program to promote curling, dumping the CAC and Ontario Association of Coaches programs and start asking clubs how OCA can be of service rather than acting like paper dictators.

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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2668

quote:

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Originally posted by lolar3288
When you really think about it.....why should OCA change?

Reality, they act like the King of the Castle and no one challenges it. Actually they are the Castle beggar with their hand out ...and telling you how much money you should give them, where they are going to sleep and how you can serve them!

And they are receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars without question!

I can't understand why all clubs just don't add a line to their membership form that is optional membership to OCA and submit only the people and dues collected specifically for OCA. It addresses all issues.

Maybe OCA would start justifying their existence by starting a major curling advertising program to promote curling, dumping the CAC and Ontario Association of Coaches programs and start asking clubs how OCA can be of service rather than acting like paper dictators.

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This is really a Catch 22 conundrum. The Olympics have generated much larger interest in the sport in every country except Canada. In Canada, IMO, the Olympics have killed off a lot of the top spiels that made this game the roaring game. Sure they have been replaced with Slams, which cater to far less teams. But the fun is gone. Everyone is way to serious now.
Ultimately, because of the Olympics the number of competitive teams has diminished and entries into the Ontario play downs is at an all time low. Maybe the time is right for the Web.com curling tour that is for club teams and aged out competitive players (Dominion style).
I guess the real question is where the OCA fits in, in the big picture. What they provide to the average club curler is NOTHING. To anyone who competes in any form of zone, regional or provincial play down, what they provide is negligible. Some organization (zone rep), and officiating (if really required). Maybe a realignment of fees is required. If you are competing in any OCA sanctioned event there is one fee structure and if you are just a club curler, there is another fee structure.

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The sad thing is there is so much an organization like this could do if it got it's head out of it's .......

I read somewhere that only 3% of the Canadian Population Curl...in a sport that probably 95% could participate in. It just needs a driving force to get curling into the face of the average public!

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I am not from Ontario. I can not and do not want to judge the performance of the OCA, their staff and programs. But I do want to say a few things.

First, I find amazing that we are only talking about 25$ per player. Why is $25 annually to promote their sport and association an outrage to curlers when most of them find it normal to pay $50 - $75 for a single game of golf, or to pay $6 for a Starbuck treat? The problem with curling is that perhaps it is NOT expensive enough. When something has a low price tag, people associate it with no value.

Second, at $25 per player, you need 2000 player's contributiuon only to pay for ONE employee of the OCA. How many more for their expenses, the rent, etc.? And then, you expect them to do miracles, granting money all over, programs for the clubs, recruiting youth, officiating clinics, running provincials events, etc. With what? Holy water? You pay $25 per player. Expect 25$ of services. Not grants to fix leaking roofs!

Third, I see the blame on the OCA for declining participation in curling. So, you as a curler, what have you done to promote it?And, sorry to say, the real question to evaluate the performance of the OCA in recruiting curlers and promoting the game is not to confirm that the numbers are down. If you have any business sense, the real question is :what would participation be if it would not have been of their efforts? Then you can judge their performance.

25$ per year. 2$ per month. If this game I love is not worth that to any of you, perhaps you are not a part of the solution.

Ben

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Registered: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto
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quote:

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Originally posted by Unregistered
I am not from Ontario. I can not and do not want to judge the performance of the OCA, their staff and programs. But I do want to say a few things.

First, I find amazing that we are only talking about 25$ per player. Why is $25 annually to promote their sport and association an outrage to curlers when most of them find it normal to pay $50 - $75 for a single game of golf, or to pay $6 for a Starbuck treat? The problem with curling is that perhaps it is NOT expensive enough. When something has a low price tag, people associate it with no value.

Second, at $25 per player, you need 2000 player's contributiuon only to pay for ONE employee of the OCA. How many more for their expenses, the rent, etc.? And then, you expect them to do miracles, granting money all over, programs for the clubs, recruiting youth, officiating clinics, running provincials events, etc. With what? Holy water? You pay $25 per player. Expect 25$ of services. Not grants to fix leaking roofs!

Third, I see the blame on the OCA for declining participation in curling. So, you as a curler, what have you done to promote it?And, sorry to say, the real question to evaluate the performance of the OCA in recruiting curlers and promoting the game is not to confirm that the numbers are down. If you have any business sense, the real question is :what would participation be if it would not have been of their efforts? Then you can judge their performance.

25$ per year. 2$ per month. If this game I love is not worth that to any of you, perhaps you are not a part of the solution.

Ben

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quote:

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Originally posted by Unregistered
I am not from Ontario. I can not and do not want to judge the performance of the OCA, their staff and programs. But I do want to say a few things.

First, I find amazing that we are only talking about 25$ per player. Why is $25 annually to promote their sport and association an outrage to curlers when most of them find it normal to pay $50 - $75 for a single game of golf, or to pay $6 for a Starbuck treat? The problem with curling is that perhaps it is NOT expensive enough. When something has a low price tag, people associate it with no value.

Second, at $25 per player, you need 2000 player's contributiuon only to pay for ONE employee of the OCA. How many more for their expenses, the rent, etc.? And then, you expect them to do miracles, granting money all over, programs for the clubs, recruiting youth, officiating clinics, running provincials events, etc. With what? Holy water? You pay $25 per player. Expect 25$ of services. Not grants to fix leaking roofs!

Third, I see the blame on the OCA for declining participation in curling. So, you as a curler, what have you done to promote it?And, sorry to say, the real question to evaluate the performance of the OCA in recruiting curlers and promoting the game is not to confirm that the numbers are down. If you have any business sense, the real question is :what would participation be if it would not have been of their efforts? Then you can judge their performance.

25$ per year. 2$ per month. If this game I love is not worth that to any of you, perhaps you are not a part of the solution.

Ben

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Last edited by Guest on 09-29-13 at 08:59PM

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quote:

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Originally posted by lovetocurl
Well said Ben! I agree completely.

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Registered: Jan 2005
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Hey Larry, I think the $25 dollars that you are talking about is the CCA competitors fee which the OCA collects and passes on to the Canadian Curling Association for players playing in events that go to a National Championship. Since you always have such insightful information you should bring this to the Zone 13 Fall meeting at the Grimsby Curling Club tomorrow night ( Tuesday October 1, 2013) at 7:30pm. This is the perfect opportunity to voice your opinions in person to the Executive Director of the OCA and other OCA members that might be there. I know it may be tough for you to do this in person, without the courage of anonymity that the internet provides but a brave man would not pass up such an chance. See you at 7:30 Larry ( Lolar) unless of course you have some feeble excuse not to attend.

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Location: Kingston, ON
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If you fail to show up Larry, I would recommend a good
Psychiatrist session or two, I am sure they can cure that phobia.

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quote:

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Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
Hey Larry, I think the $25 dollars that you are talking about is the CCA competitors fee which the OCA collects and passes on to the Canadian Curling Association for players playing in events that go to a National Championship

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Registered: Jan 2005
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the OCA collects a member fee of around $11 per registered curler, the $25 dollars paid to the CCA is for Competitor Cards for curlers competing in events that go to a National Championship, as stated above.

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quote:

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Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
the OCA collects a member fee of around $11 per registered curler, the $25 dollars paid to the CCA is for Competitor Cards for curlers competing in events that go to a National Championship, as stated above.

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Last edited by Guest on 09-30-13 at 03:14PM

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the CCA fee is only paid for OCA members that play in events that lead to a national championship, not from every curler in the OCA, so the OCA is only charged the CCA fee for those specific curlers.

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quote:

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Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
the CCA fee is only paid for OCA members that play in events that lead to a national championship, not from every curler in the OCA, so the OCA is only charged the CCA fee for those specific curlers.

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