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03-06-17 09:35AM
nelsosi is offline Click Here to See the Profile for nelsosi Click here to Send nelsosi a Private Message Find more posts by nelsosi Add nelsosi to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
nelsosi
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Registered: Mar 2012
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quote:
Originally posted by On The Nose


Colleen Jones did ok out of the Maritimes, too, as I recall...


So did Mark Dacey

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03-06-17 10:09AM
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Gerry
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Nunavut has a playdown like all other provinces/territories. So not much you can do about selecting a team, they're just going to have to keep working at it.

As for the Brier/Scotties, it's not just the players who need more top teams playing in it. It's Curling Canada who needs their best teams playing to keep getting better and having a chance of winning World Championship and Olympic medals which is a huge component of how they fund their programs.

It's a balance between the tradition and romance of the current Brier/Scotties formats and the importance of having the best teams playing and building for the future.

No one can question that Homan is the best team coming out of the Scotties to represent Canada and Englot would have been a great representative as well, but how much does it set back the development that teams like Flaxey, Sweeting, Scheidegger and Fleury were not there?

The traditions of the Brier/Scotties is very important to the brand right now and they have to be careful in tinkering with it as it makes them a lot of money they use to pay for other programs. But if they're not careful, they will continue falling behind in the elite level (women's especially) which is also important to the funding they receive from Own The Podium.

There are no easy answers here.

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03-06-17 10:17AM
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Ajay
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I CAN question who was the best team at the Scotties. While we know the outcome, two teams 10-1. The Englot team beat HOMAN twice and lost the third game by the equivalent of one shot either way. Does that sound like HOMAN being far and away the best?

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03-06-17 10:36AM
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fresca
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cthats the pro side story

so the pros dont want to play the average guys ( even thou they dont beat them everytime )

the slammers want to feed off the popularity of the scott and brier until they fill it it with pros and turn it into another slam with audience made up of 100 relatives ...

the scot and brier only make money because of the 1000s of volunteers - most serving 10- 50 years ..

sorry , not interested in another slam - 80% of the field are pro slammers now

they have the advantage of govt funding , they devote 6 months to curling exclusively, they have endorsements ,sponsors and franchise offers based on past performance, a clique that allows only point earners from past slams to join the field , an exclusive path to the olympics and "stardom, wealth, and commentator jobs," and a lots of other exclusive perks

cancel the govt funding and the olympics for ten years and the only slammers at the brier are mike and brad ...til they win it

just the other side of the coin ...the viewing audience is too small and tsn and rsn have a monopoly so that a few players make $75,000 , a few make $25,000 to cover expenses and the announcers make $200,000

win a golf tournament in mexico city and win $1.6 million for 4 rounds - more than all the curling loot in a curling year combined come 100th and still win $45,000

all has been said before

there are no easy answers here .....

sunday night the fans were in the stands , not the Patch - wait til friday nite !

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03-06-17 12:29PM
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Ronemac52
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From my perspective the continued dominance of Canada in the world of curling lies in the development of a much more robust professional league. This does not need to lead to the destruction on our great Brier or Scotties competitions.

Personally I love the World Curling Tour and especially the Grand Slam events. The current problem is there is not enough money available to truly make this a professional league and therefore only a very few can make the sacrifices that it takes to continue to improve and to match or beat the more professional teams being developed in Europe and Asia, primarily for the Olympic medals now offered. While Canada could take the same approach as the rest of the world, developing a few elite teams, abandoning our more holistic view of the game is far better and ensures the game is as healthy as possible. The trick is finding a way to at least double the current amount of prize money available.

The Brier and the Scotties need to continue to be the most prestigious events and to deliver our Canadian Champions to the world championships each year. It needs to be open to everyone, from everywhere, both deemed amateur or professional. while I am against any restriction in numbers from any province, I believe until Nunavit or the Yukon can provide clear evidence that their associations can compete (not necessarily win) their should be a combined representative from our northern territories. A yearly Territorial Championship (Men & Women) in January each year run by the CCA should most certainly be held.

The significance of both the Scotties and the Brier need to be recognized and guarded. Their importance goes well beyond the participating public into the very fibre of Canadian culture and sport. Any moves to make significant changes need to be well thought out prior to implementation as potential damage to the integrity or national flavour of the event could be very detrimental to curling in general.

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03-06-17 12:58PM
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FollowingAlong
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quote:
Originally posted by Ronemac52
Personally I love the World Curling Tour and especially the Grand Slam events. The current problem is there is not enough money available to truly make this a professional league and therefore only a very few can make the sacrifices that it takes to continue to improve and to match or beat the more professional teams being developed in Europe and Asia, primarily for the Olympic medals now offered. While Canada could take the same approach as the rest of the world, developing a few elite teams, abandoning our more holistic view of the game is far better and ensures the game is as healthy as possible. The trick is finding a way to at least double the current amount of prize money available.



Although I completely concur with your assessment that the amount of prize money available at Grand Slam events (or equivalents) needs to double (minimally), what also needs to happen is to find a way to get some of these additional monies into the hands of the teams outside the top 12-18 ranked teams in Canada. If we "feed" only those teams, there is not enough to prop up the teams/players we probably should be looking at seeing 5-10 years down the road.

It is already near-impossible for the up and coming teams to try and compete with the established slam teams. The couch critics out there say "Get out there, enter bonspiels, earn points/cash, move up the ladder." That's all well in theory until you start adding up the expenses to do so. At these slam events, teams can win one game and win as much money as a team playing in a regional bonspiel can win if they make it right to the event semi-final often needing to win five or six games just to get there.

It would be great to increase the prize money available at the Tier 1 slam events, absolutely, but additional Tier 2 events need to occur so that it is feasible for the B level teams in the geographic area of the event can participate for a prize purse of $50,000-60,000.

Curling is still many years away from getting anywhere close to the golf model, but if the sport continues to focus only on the top 10-15 teams in Canada there soon will be fewer than that number of teams to focus on...

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03-06-17 01:10PM
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biterbar
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What would happen to the Brier if the "professional" teams were eliminated from competing? If it once again became teams from the same clubs who played league together?

I love watching them swigging beer and smoking cigarettes in the old MacDonald Brier replays on YouTube.

No TV, no crowds, no interest?

Just wondering.

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03-06-17 01:49PM
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albetts
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quote:
Originally posted by Ajay
I CAN question who was the best team at the Scotties. While we know the outcome, two teams 10-1. The Englot team beat HOMAN twice and lost the third game by the equivalent of one shot either way. Does that sound like HOMAN being far and away the best?


YES.

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03-06-17 02:14PM
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Ronemac52
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I believe the Brier and the Scotties should essentially be the 'best' from each province. I think eliminating the 'so-called' professionals would certainly deviate from that and the audiences both at the venue and on television would quickly dwindle.

As far as funding Tier 2 teams that is certainly a need, however, from my perspective this needs to be a regional venture such as the Alberta Curling Tour. Finding the sponsorship money and the resources to run these regional organizations will be a challenge. Finding a way to integrate the top Tier 2 teams into the Tier 1 national events would need to be looked at as well. Tier 2 athletes will, at least in the foreseeable future, be required to subsidize their expenses. Having a viable Tier 1 carrot out there would, however, make that more acceptable.

Having chaired the LOC for a Slam, it seems to me that potentially curling has the right partner in Sportsnet to move toward a structure which could see a bigger Tier 1 organization. I believe it does however need to have more professional input and marketing from the players.

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03-06-17 02:49PM
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FollowingAlong
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quote:
Originally posted by Ronemac52

As far as funding Tier 2 teams that is certainly a need, however, from my perspective this needs to be a regional venture such as the Alberta Curling Tour. Finding the sponsorship money and the resources to run these regional organizations will be a challenge. Finding a way to integrate the top Tier 2 teams into the Tier 1 national events would need to be looked at as well. Tier 2 athletes will, at least in the foreseeable future, be required to subsidize their expenses. Having a viable Tier 1 carrot out there would, however, make that more acceptable.



A "viable Tier 1 carrot out there" is not enough to keep the Tier 2 pipeline fed if teams in the Tier 2 pipeline don't have a chance to put some extra money in their jeans. That being said, regional ventures are fine and potentially the feeder systems required however some of the "gravy" available (and I'm not saying there's a lot of gravy) to the Tier 1 events somehow needs to make it into the Tier 2 events even if it means eliminating one of the Slam events and funneling that money into the regional tours so that more of what the players are playing for isn't just an exchange of their entry fees to the winning teams in an event.

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03-06-17 03:32PM
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NSCoach
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I wish Russ would give it a rest with the "straight ice" in the Maritimes nonsense, 4.5 ft of curl is the norm at the clubs I play in.

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03-06-17 04:18PM
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Justintwiss
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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: St.Claude
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quote:
Originally posted by FollowingAlong


A "viable Tier 1 carrot out there" is not enough to keep the Tier 2 pipeline fed if teams in the Tier 2 pipeline don't have a chance to put some extra money in their jeans. That being said, regional ventures are fine and potentially the feeder systems required however some of the "gravy" available (and I'm not saying there's a lot of gravy) to the Tier 1 events somehow needs to make it into the Tier 2 events even if it means eliminating one of the Slam events and funneling that money into the regional tours so that more of what the players are playing for isn't just an exchange of their entry fees to the winning teams in an event.



Why not just go with 4-5 slams for tier 1 and have 3-4 tier 2 events? The winners or top 2 teams from the tier 2 get invites to the tier 1. Still can have it televised and see some new teams instead of the same 10 every weekend. There are tons of good players/team in Canada that could benefit from this.

Teams in tier 2 can still get some of those big points/cash if 3-4 slams were tier 2. With only 4-5 tier 1 and not 8 events those top ranked teams can go play more other events to draw crowds into local clubs. Also with bigger teams in some events the SFM goes up and more points are awarded to all the qualifying teams.

The bubble teams that are close to the top but not there yet have a tough choice. Travel and shell out a pile of cash while working with the hopes of doing well and climbing the ladder or step back because its not financially possible. The teams in tier 1 win 1 game a weekend and that covers the entry fee. 8 of 15 teams qualify and take home a decent chunk of money and big points. Its hard to catch the top 15 teams when they win more points by qualifying then a tier 2 or local team gets by winning an event that's not a slam.

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03-06-17 04:51PM
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Ajay
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This "2017 brier" thread talks about anything but.

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03-06-17 06:55PM
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fresca
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something i have noticed is the players are now all friends

gone is the killer instinct when lots of players and teams had " enemies" - guess that changed with the lifting of all players from the same province rule, and the packing of two or three teams into a super team..

as far as not posting - it seems most folk are just enjoying the show

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03-06-17 07:47PM
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Three
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Yeah, the real Brier starts this week-end, Kevin Koe, Gushue, Jacobs, McEwen....in the playoffs like in Ottawa last year...Morris, Howard, Menard sniffing around for tie-breakers.

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03-06-17 07:59PM
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
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I must be turning into the grumpy old man but FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WE SEE YOU, STOP WAVING

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03-06-17 08:03PM
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fresca
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thats why they bot the seats !!!! - a 4 second delay on fan shots would solve the waving

russ getting excited called vic cheryl !!!! lol


brad jacobs looks way better with hair and a shave ! looks about 22

Last edited by fresca on 03-06-17 at 09:24PM

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03-06-17 08:39PM
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Three
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So Fry just threw the wrong turn with his first in seven but Russ and Vic were so busy talking they missed the entire incident. Except to say Fry "usually makes that shot" (which he missed)

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03-06-17 08:47PM
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rick8end
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Gee whiz TSN. Are you determined to give us a boring evening? Jacobs is up by 4 after 7 - a lead he will never lose - and instead of changing to a competitive game we're stuck with watching another end or two of a game that is essentially over. Thanks for absolutely nothing.

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03-06-17 08:57PM
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decade
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I hate to waken the sleeping giant but where the heck is he?

Sort of sad to see Howard with only one win. Makes you wonder how Epping let him get our of Ontario,

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03-06-17 09:07PM
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rick8end
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So they change finally and we have Manitoba and Alberta trading deuces 6-6 in the 9th, or Gushue one up with last rock and two ends to go, And who do they shift over to Gushue, who guaranteed won't lose in that situation, TSN hasn't got a clue how to provide the best game.

Last edited by rick8end on 03-06-17 at 09:09PM

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03-06-17 09:10PM
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fresca
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pass the wine

your unhappy , the 300,000 in nfld are ecstatic

Last edited by fresca on 03-06-17 at 09:17PM

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03-06-17 10:07PM
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
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And the cheese.

I'll say this now while I can, NS is 500 after day 3. Been a while, and playing well.

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03-07-17 02:23AM
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On The Nose
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quote:
Originally posted by biterbar
What would happen to the Brier if the "professional" teams were eliminated from competing? If it once again became teams from the same clubs who played league together?


Isn't that what we have with the Travelers now (formerly Dominion)?
The Travelers is supposed to be the club champions from the previous season from each club. They play regionals, then provincials, then nationals.
It's basically a 'Brier' or 'Scotties' for non-elite level teams.

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03-07-17 09:02AM
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fresca
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perfect place for a national championship

in Winterpeg its 7:30 am game started , last draw at 5:30 so ends about 8:30 , walk Charlie around the block and hit the sack ....

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