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05-23-16 07:46AM
CurlingGeek is offline Click Here to See the Profile for CurlingGeek Click here to Send CurlingGeek a Private Message Visit CurlingGeek's homepage! Find more posts by CurlingGeek Add CurlingGeek to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
CurlingGeek
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Big Ideas: The Curling Franchise

CurlingGeek's big idea #1: The birth of the curling franchise:

https://youtu.be/Fdhy7qwpBKw

Disclaimer: Ideas are my own, no curlers in the video endorsed this. Huge thanks to MrsCurlingGeek for the graphics and video.

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05-23-16 07:47AM
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CurlingGeek
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Other ideas not mentioned in the video, due to lack of time:

- Clearly Mixed Doubles teams would come from players in the same franchise. Perhaps 4-person mixed as well? Even more opportunity for the big sponsors to get media play...and an outside shot at owning an Olympic team.
- The natural candidates for the Ottawa Ice Otters are Teams Homan & Jacobs. Fans don’t care that no one on the BlueJays was born in Toronto...the same will hold true for curling. Bonus: Not only does Ottawa start cheering for the Ice Otters, but so does Sault Ste Marie.
- I’m counting on Gerry Guertz to come up with a clever ranking system that blends the performance of all 5 teams into a single rank. Arguing about which franchise is the best is at the core of all sports
- I dream of the first ever blockbuster trade between curling franchises.

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05-23-16 10:14AM
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I like it!

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05-23-16 01:44PM
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jamcan
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What's wrong with curlinggeeks idea?

First, it's not original. For those with memories I present Curling International. Built along similar lines this idea of a National curling league was a spectacular failure lasting, as I recall, all of one event with players and venue not paid.

It probably didn't help that the league was run by Merv Bodnarchuk. Who would, shortly afterwards, be arrested,tried and convicted for fraud. Curling International was really just a way for him to promote his con game: Magic Rent A Car. The con which would eventually put him behind bars. But the system itself, like this idea, was flawed from the start.

Second; how are all the players going to be compensated? CG offers no explanation other than a vague mention of sponsorship. Are they still just playing tour events? Collecting winnings only while team owners rake in cash from these big name sponsors? Or are players under contract and receiving salaries like other professional,large roster team sports?

Third, shouldn't we address the tour issues first? The golf/tennis model still works. The problem is twofold: first, not enough teams/event make any money. In PGA events half the players make the cut and receive money. In the majority of cashspiels it's a quarter of the field.

Second; so called Slam events need to be owned and run by the tour, not a TV network. All you now see are made for the tube events who's sole purpose is to sell frozen hot wings.

The reason the Brier bronze game drew more viewers was it had more meaning. People aren't stupid. Calling every Pinty's Curling Tour’s event a Slam fools no one. It's just another boring cashspiel. Why boring? Because it's the same small group of teams as every other week and that repetitiveness gets boring.

The Brier is more interesting. It's a national championship held once a year. Anyone can enter and there are always new faces in the field. You go to the Worlds if you win with the Maple Leaf on your back. I don't care if you have a Slam every Sunday for 52 weeks. They will never,ever be of more importance than a Brier because they're different. Different, CG,=more interesting.

So before we venture into ex-convict land, let's fix the tour first.

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Last edited by jamcan on 05-23-16 at 02:00PM

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05-23-16 03:14PM
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CurlingGeek
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Thanks for the thoughtful reply Jamcan. I never claimed the idea was original. Just big :-)

For those who don't know the tale of Merv Bodnarchuk, this is a great read: http://longform.org/stories/merv-curls-lead

Of course, I'm not a crook, have no financial interest in this idea, and have no illusions about playing for the Ice Elks.

I chose Kevin Martin as my lead Owner/GM for a reason: He's a brand unto himself, knows the game better than anyone, and has one of the better business minds in the game. Negotiating a deal with the teams would be right up his alley.

10 years from now, I think players really could draw a salary. No, not millions like an NHL player. But $150k guaranteed for a good skip? Possible. For now, my guess is that we'd be looking at a revenue split. So, for sake of argument, net profit from Elks sponsorship and merchandise could be split:

- Men: 35%
- Women: 35%
- Owner/GM: 15%
- Junior Men: 5%
- Junior Women: 5%
- Wheelchair: 5%

Cash winnings would go to the players (same as now), perhaps subject to a 10% clawback for the franchise. That's a business negotiation.

For a team like Kevin Koe, the decision becomes: is 35% of a McDonald's sponsorship worth more or less than 100% of a Taylor Made sponsorship? Could go either way.

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05-23-16 07:16PM
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jamcan
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Actually CG your first sentence in your first post calls this your "Big idea #1". You then, in the disclaimer call this idea your own. Now perhaps, just perhaps, I'm splitting grammatical hairs. But you sure come across as this is your original idea.

So you wouldn't split the sponsor money equally amongst your 5 teams? Yeah, good luck signing Jr's and a wheelchair team for a measly 5%. And then asking for a 10% claw back on any money they win? I don't care who your GM is, that dog won't hunt.

Nice of you to provide a link to a story, long rumoured to be paid for by Merv, that attempts to glorify a crook. Instead, why don't you publish a link to the court documents about his BC Supreme Court Trial where it details the millions he fleeced from people to support his teams, a fake car rental business and an even faker professional curling tour. Not to mention some of the name curlers at the time who helped him promote the business but then testified against him in court. Now thats truly interesting reading.

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Last edited by jamcan on 05-23-16 at 07:23PM

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05-23-16 07:24PM
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blid
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I think the main issue in curling today is that curlers are quitting because the top tier of teams is too far away from where they are, and I think the ideas present from CG would worsen this issue.

The big teams could get this "Franchise" idea to work if they wanted to, but what happens to the lower ranked teams?

To take the example presented, yes Koe and Rocque can form this together with two junior teams, but say if a the lower tier Ontario teams tried this they would not be able to get these huge sponsorship deals just because they are not "slam teams" thus creating more money for the big guns in curling and not enough for the lower ranked teams.

If this idea ever took off the separation of the top tier teams and the second tier teams would become bigger over time, and isn't that what we're trying to stop?

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05-23-16 08:04PM
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CurlingGeek
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quote:
Originally posted by blid
I think the main issue in curling today is that curlers are quitting because the top tier of teams is too far away from where they are, and I think the ideas present from CG would worsen this issue.

If this idea ever took off the separation of the top tier teams and the second tier teams would become bigger over time, and isn't that what we're trying to stop?



Agreed...but that ship has sailed. Curling will never go back to what it was. The key to survival is to make ourselves more like hockey/soccer: where the pro game enhances and inspires the amateur game: getting more kids to try it early, and keeping adults playing in rec leagues buying fancy gear and supporting clubs.

I don't think it is productive to pretend we can go backwards on the separation of the top tier. The olympics have made that impossible.

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05-23-16 08:28PM
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CurlingGeek
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quote:
Originally posted by jamcan
So you wouldn't split the sponsor money equally amongst your 5 teams? Yeah, good luck signing Jr's and a wheelchair team for a measly 5%. And then asking for a 10% claw back on any money they win?


Using my entirely hypothetical $250k sponsorship from McDonald's, that works out to:

Men/Women: $87,500 each team
GM/Owner: $37,500
Junior Men/Women, Wheelchair: $12,500 each team

Very few junior and/or wheelchair teams would get more than $12,500 in annual sponsorship, plus the added bonus of coaching from Kevin Martin, and ice time with the adult teams? Sounds like a good package to me.

But perhaps you're right...maybe the McDonald's sponsorship needs to be $300k, or even $500k to make all the numbers work. That's still a small number for the truly big marketers in the world.

As for teams offering a % of winnings back to supporters, that's an actual offer I have received from teams asking me to sponsor them over the past few years.

As you've correctly pointed out: the video is me building on the ideas of many others, and bundling them into a somewhat (but not entirely) unique concept. Notably: the Sherry Middaugh/Molly Greenwood sponsor package from a few years ago, plus many others. And yes, Merv is a con man and a convicted criminal...no argument

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05-23-16 11:20PM
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Phil_D
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Registered: May 2014
Location: Joliet, IL
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quote:
Originally posted by CurlingGeek


Agreed...but that ship has sailed. Curling will never go back to what it was. The key to survival is to make ourselves more like hockey/soccer: where the pro game enhances and inspires the amateur game: getting more kids to try it early, and keeping adults playing in rec leagues buying fancy gear and supporting clubs.

I don't think it is productive to pretend we can go backwards on the separation of the top tier. The olympics have made that impossible.



Bingo

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05-24-16 02:50PM
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Gerry
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Talking to one of the top teams, regardless of how it's done the value of sponsoring curling is still highly undervalued.

What Sportsnet has done is given the sport a higher profile among other major sports. Curling gets coverage on the highlights show and you see promotion of the events during NHL and MLB games.

When you factor in the amount of coverage the top teams get, they're seeing about 10-12 TV games a season each which works out to around 30 hours of TV coverage.

For an advertisers to put that kind of investment into TV advertising for the Slams alone you'd be looking at a cost of around $1.3 million based on advertising rates. And this is for sponsors being in the actual program and not as part of commercials which are going to be less effective.

The involvement of Sportsnet in the Grand Slams has been a boost for the exposure of the game and the results will show next season as the event purses expand to reward the players.

The league idea may work in time in the sport. It's going to continue evolving as investment in the sport grows.

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05-24-16 08:54PM
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shrike
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This is a great idea in theory. But what it could really use is some George Steinbrenners. Not just sponsors.

Where will the money come from? Who knows? But:

I always thought some kind of national curling league would be a great idea. Something where like other pro sports, pro curlers get a guaranteed contract to play. This franchise idea is great but the curlers need a guaranteed contract now. How much would they realistically get? Top level players could do fine but the lower levels maybe not so well, but always a shot at a big payday.

If you're a talented player, maybe Kevin Martin himself will offer you a good deal. Or not. There would be scouts watching

If there were a franchise system, you would have 4 teams on your team. It could operate as a glorified flight league. Ice Elks against Ice Otters. All teams play each other. For scoring make it points spiel format or even skins. The men vs the women might be a mismatch but what if Jabobs for example had to take all the skins against Rocque? That's drama

There would be drama if the Ice Elks or Otters got relegated to the B group

There would be TV coverage. If A and H flights were playing in the same rink, maybe H would;t be the TV event but it would get highlights

All unrealistic though

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05-30-16 08:51PM
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Merv Bodnarchuk...that's a piece of history I wish to forget

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Curling Scores

M: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: M7 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 8:00pm CT
Lannoye Final
Hebert (10) Watch Live Curling!
Fitzgerald 10th
Cenzalli  Watch Live Curling!
Brenden Final
Church (9) Watch Live Curling!
Guentzel Final
Rose (6) Watch Live Curling!
W: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: W6 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 4:00pm CT
Berg Final
Scheel (10) Watch Live Curling!
Berg Final
Schapman (10) Watch Live Curling!
Giroux 10  Final
Pekowitz (9) Watch Live Curling!
Viau Final
Johnson (10) Watch Live Curling!
M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Fri, Mar 22 -- 1:00pm AT
Lott/Lott Final
Walk/Muyr (8) Watch Live Curling!
M: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 3:00am ET
Caccivio Final
Brauchli 12  (EE)
Dryburgh Final
Ringgenberg (9)
W: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 9:00am CET
Schwaller Final
Oberson (9)
Blackham Final
von Arx (9)
W: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 11:00am MT
Stroeder Final
Delorey (7)
M: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 1:00pm ET
Delorey Final
Lockhart (EE)
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