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| 11-20-14 04:57PM |
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Gerry
CZ Founder
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 4002 |
Team Schöpp wins court appeal, to play Europeans
After winning the German playdown for the European Championships, Team Andrea Schöpp was passed over by the association and Team Driendl was selected to represent Germany.
Earlier today, Team Schöpp won the court appeal and will now represent Germany at the European Championships in Champery, Switzerland.
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| 11-20-14 05:09PM |
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albetts
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 1120 |
Re: Team Schöpp wins court appeal, to play Europeans
quote:
Originally posted by Gerry
After winning the German playdown for the European Championships, Team Andrea Schöpp was passed over by the association and Team Driendl was selected to represent Germany.
Earlier today, Team Schöpp won the court appeal and will not represent Germany at the European Championships in Champery, Switzerland.
I'm a wee bit confused here. Did Schopp possibly lose the court appeal or did she win and will represent Germany? Please clarify. Thanks
Last edited by albetts on 11-20-14 at 05:12PM
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| 11-20-14 05:40PM |
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guycan
Swing Artist
Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Brampton, ON
Posts: 267 |
Team Schöpp won the appeal today and will represent Germany
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| 11-20-14 05:57PM |
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wsj28
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 60 |
That sucks for Team Driendl who were already in Champery and preparing for the tournament.
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| 11-20-14 06:03PM |
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Gerry
CZ Founder
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 4002 |
Typo, not should have read now.
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| 11-20-14 06:36PM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002 |
quote:
Originally posted by wsj28
That sucks for Team Driendl who were already in Champery and preparing for the tournament.
yeah, im thinking the same thing. im torn because andrea did win the national championship so technically could have gone but at the same time team dreindl have been there for at least a couple days now. this is not fair
Last edited by misty1 on 11-20-14 at 07:02PM
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| 11-20-14 07:53PM |
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curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2668 |
quote:
Originally posted by misty1
yeah, im thinking the same thing. im torn because andrea did win the national championship so technically could have gone but at the same time team dreindl have been there for at least a couple days now. this is not fair
Well the German Federation should not have screwed around with the selection process. just send the winner no matter how unpalatable
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| 11-20-14 08:27PM |
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rbi
Hitting Paint
Registered: May 2014
Location:
Posts: 143 |
Can somebody add some details about the nature of the appeal and the reasoning of the court (was it the CAS?) in overturning the previous decision?
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| 11-20-14 08:37PM |
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Sean
Administrator
Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 1992 |
I can't with German Curling, it's just... too much. Can anyone say drama?
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| 11-21-14 08:23AM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002 |
quote:
Originally posted by curlerbroad
Well the German Federation should not have screwed around with the selection process. just send the winner no matter how unpalatable
well lets just agree its unfair to both.
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| 11-21-14 08:59AM |
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AlanMacNeill
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 1064 |
quote:
Originally posted by rbi
Can somebody add some details about the nature of the appeal and the reasoning of the court (was it the CAS?) in overturning the previous decision?
My understanding (courtesy of Google translate and one semester of Community College German 25 years ago, so errors are likely) is that this was a German court, not the CAS, and the basis of the lawsuit was "We were told the winner of the trials would go, we won the trials, and then they changed the rules".
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| 11-21-14 05:15PM |
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Alice
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2012
Location:
Posts: 324 |
The Deutsche Curling Verband was ordered to pay her legal fees as well as a rather large fine. Not sure if that fine was to pay if DCV refused to honor the court order, pay for plaintiff damages in addition to her legal fees, a straight penalty for breaching contract law, or some other reason.
When the Verband decided to change their rules after the on-ice decision claiming they had discretion to do so for any reason, I thought why didn't all the other German women's teams tell their federation, "We lost on the ice and that's that." Otherwise, why bother to have playdowns if federations have 100% selection discretion for big events? A handshake on the ice must be honored or we may as well drop the "Spirit of Curling" from all rulebooks for elite curling and create a labor union of players with union and tour cards, team managers, bag caddies, strikes, etc. Until all players agree the game is decided on the ice and not in backrooms by nonplayers all top curlers will just be more and more subjected to the discretion (cough, whims) of national coaching staffs, federation powers that be and sponsors, especially for the biggest prize, the Olympics.
Interesting, how so far only the ladies led by Schopp and Munro have openly fought and won in courts against their curling federations' off-ice whims.
Last edited by Alice on 11-22-14 at 01:51AM
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| 11-22-14 02:12AM |
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peteski
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 631 |
Re: Team Schöpp wins court appeal, to play Europeans
quote:
Originally posted by Gerry
After winning the German playdown for the European Championships, Team Andrea Schöpp was passed over by the association and Team Driendl was selected to represent Germany.
Earlier today, Team Schöpp won the court appeal and will now represent Germany at the European Championships in Champery, Switzerland.
While I think this is generally good, I do wonder why this is different than say, the U.S. and Swedish representatives for the World Championships, who don't necessarily have to win their national championships. Is the difference that the qualifying event in question was specifically supposed to determine the representative for the Europeans, and this understanding was changed after the fact? My uneducated understanding was that generally all federations could do whatever they wanted regarding their representatives.
I also wonder if this decision will mean that the German federation will simply make a rule in advance of their next qualifying event allowing them to pick whoever they want in the future.
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| 11-22-14 10:26AM |
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Gerry
CZ Founder
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 4002 |
Re: Re: Team Schöpp wins court appeal, to play Europeans
quote:
Originally posted by peteski
While I think this is generally good, I do wonder why this is different than say, the U.S. and Swedish representatives for the World Championships, who don't necessarily have to win their national championships. Is the difference that the qualifying event in question was specifically supposed to determine the representative for the Europeans, and this understanding was changed after the fact? My uneducated understanding was that generally all federations could do whatever they wanted regarding their representatives.
I also wonder if this decision will mean that the German federation will simply make a rule in advance of their next qualifying event allowing them to pick whoever they want in the future.
From everything I've heard about the situation, it has to do with it not being written into the rules that the association could select a team. The expectation was that the winner would go to Champery and then they decided they were going to choose a team before the event was over.
I don't believe it will affect other countries where this process is commonly used.
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| 11-23-14 01:07PM |
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AlanMacNeill
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 1064 |
quote:
Originally posted by Alice
The Deutsche Curling Verband was ordered to pay her legal fees as well as a rather large fine. Not sure if that fine was to pay if DCV refused to honor the court order, pay for plaintiff damages in addition to her legal fees, a straight penalty for breaching contract law, or some other reason.
German law (and most other non-US nations, for that matter) have a fairly standard automatic "loser pays" rule in their Courts...the loser of a lawsuit generally has to pay the expenses of the winner.
And this appears to have been a pretty open and shut case, legally.
There are some exceptions (particularly indigency and suing the government), and the Court can waive it (in some nations, at least) if the suit is found to have had strong merit, just not strong enough to win.
It does tend to keep the frivolous lawsuits out of court, also keeps out the frivolous defenses.
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