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M: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: M6 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 12:00pm CT
Church Final
Rose (9) Watch Live Curling!
Brenden Final
Guentzel (9) Watch Live Curling!
Fitzgerald Final
Hebert (9) Watch Live Curling!
Lannoye Final
Cenzalli (10) Watch Live Curling!
W: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: W6 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 4:00pm CT
Berg 5th
Scheel  Watch Live Curling!
Berg 4th
Schapman  Watch Live Curling!
Giroux 4th
Pekowitz  Watch Live Curling!
Viau 4th
Johnson  Watch Live Curling!
M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Fri, Mar 22 -- 1:00pm AT
Lott/Lott Final
Walk/Muyr (8) Watch Live Curling!
M: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 3:00am ET
Caccivio Final
Brauchli 12  (EE)
Dryburgh Final
Ringgenberg (9)
W: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 9:00am CET
Schwaller Final
Oberson (9)
Blackham Final
von Arx (9)
W: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 11:00am MT
Stroeder Final
Delorey (7)
M: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 1:00pm ET
Delorey Final
Lockhart (EE)
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05-14-15 05:20PM
MNIceman is offline Click Here to See the Profile for MNIceman Click here to Send MNIceman a Private Message Visit MNIceman's homepage! Find more posts by MNIceman Add MNIceman to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
MNIceman
Hitting Paint

 

Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Plymouth, MN
Posts: 159

I have 2 reasons why I'm against the current world team selection.

1. I don't feel the reason for poor Team USA performances at Worlds prior to the new selection process was ever that we sent the wrong team.

2. The current OOM point system is no where near fair and accurate enough to be used for something so important. There isn't even a clear set of rules to award OOM points since there is the condition that events can be evaluated on a case by case basis. For example, a men's event must have 15 teams unless you make a big enough deal out of the event. Then you can have 4 teams and play in the snow and draw the button for an extra end. There are no rules!

If Craig Brown's team had beaten Shuster in the final I feel it's likely that the two teams point totals could have been within a margin of error. Who is double checking all the calculations (besides me)? The USCA is setting itself up for a potential lawsuit with this system. Imagine what will happen when a team is sent to worlds and then a calculation error is found that would have sent a different team.

The selection process is completely unnecessary.

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05-14-15 10:35PM
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Grat
Hitting Paint

 

Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 107

Re: Not sure why I'm doing it.

quote:
Originally posted by VanillaIce

Not sure why I'm posting again but I guess am hoping to illustrate the REAL problem that I feel we are attempting to solve. I again apologize for the length of my posts but its hard to get my points across in short form.



Thanks for posting. It's good to see both the statistical and anecdotal reasoning behind decisions, rather than just that the changes are because of our Olympic results.

I still don't like the change to our World team selection criteria, but now have a better understanding of just what we are trying to overcome.

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05-15-15 09:08AM
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SmokeyJoe
Hitting Paint

 

Registered: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 127

Re: Re: Re: Re: US winner to Worlds.

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry


There is already discussion about using the Canada Cup to determine who goes to the World Championships. Sport Canada (who funds the elite programs and funding dependent upon International medals) would have the same influences as the USOC if Canada were to start missing the podium on a regular basis.



If the Canada Cup was used to determine Canada's representative for the World Championship, then I would expect to see the winner of that competition going to the Worlds. I can't imagine selecting the 2nd or 3rd place team based on points.

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05-16-15 12:29AM
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first27
Knee-Slider

 

Registered: Aug 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7

Re: Re: US winner to Worlds.

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry


If Canada was posting similar World Championship and Olympics results as the USA, there would be big changes here too.



Ah, Gerry: I was hoping you'd say that. But I've noticed that the Canadian Men haven't been winning the World Championship lately. Wouldn't you say winning the World for the Canadian Men's team is a comparable goal to a podium finish for a US team? So would you advise the CCA to install a point standard for the Canadian World Team, to help ensure Canadian gold?

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05-16-15 01:13AM
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first27
Knee-Slider

 

Registered: Aug 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7

John:

I agree with everything you have so passionately and eloquently stated. It is my deep desire that the HPP can lead the USA to podium finishes in the future. But nobody is surprised that this very tough goal may take some time to accomplish. That is precisely why we should do away with an inequitable point qualification system, that tilts the playing field to the program teams. The system is inequitable because it favors well funded program teams that have greater opportunities to compete in high point events, and it includes competitions that are available only to the program teams. We need to level that playing field to maximize the likelihood that the true best USA team is our World Representative, as often as possible. We need to continue to send our best team until the program develops that podium team. The best way that I know how to do that, year in and year out, is to send our National Champion. When the program achieves success, the program teams will win the National Championship. When that happens, then we will know that the program has been successful.

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05-16-15 08:41AM
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misty1
Supreme Champion!

 

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002

Re: Re: Re: Re: US winner to Worlds.

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry


There is already discussion about using the Canada Cup to determine who goes to the World Championships. Sport Canada (who funds the elite programs and funding dependent upon International medals) would have the same influences as the USOC if Canada were to start missing the podium on a regular basis.



I honestly hope that never happens and i dont think it will because canada is never going to start missing the podium on a consistent basis all together. The only reason the switch would be made is if people started being unhappy with canada not winning gold all the time. while i understand thats the ultimate goal canada should still be happy with how its teams are doing overall

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05-19-15 08:30AM
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tuck
Super Rockchucker

 

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 2613

It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the coming years. My contention is that a second or third place team from Nationals will not do well at Worlds. So far we are 0 for 2 when this happens.

In return for a large amount of money, the USOC has tasked the USCA with many responsibilities. Should sending silver and bronze medalists to Worlds result is the USA not getting one of the automatic spots at the next Olympics, then we'll have to call the policy an Epic Fail. The gold medalists may or may not have done better; but we'll have given something up for nothing in return.

John, is it possible that the nature of curling would lead towards these runners-up never being at their best at Worlds?

Ben Tucker

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05-19-15 10:56AM
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ChiefIceMinion
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Nov 2012
Location: In the crawlspace
Posts: 83

quote:
Originally posted by tuck
It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the coming years. My contention is that a second or third place team from Nationals will not do well at Worlds. So far we are 0 for 2 when this happens.

In return for a large amount of money, the USOC has tasked the USCA with many responsibilities. Should sending silver and bronze medalists to Worlds result is the USA not getting one of the automatic spots at the next Olympics, then we'll have to call the policy an Epic Fail. The gold medalists may or may not have done better; but we'll have given something up for nothing in return.

John, is it possible that the nature of curling would lead towards these runners-up never being at their best at Worlds?

Ben Tucker



I think what John and a few other posters have expressed here is that any US team has "not doing well at Worlds" as the probable outcome given the overall state of the potential US field vs. the international one. So in some regards, sending the gold medal winner from Nationals vs. the silver or bronze (or other) might not change the results. Likewise, a US team "at its best" may not necessarily be competitive in the field (take away Shuster's performance this year and the US has typically finished where?).

What I do find contradictory is that there is the stated sentiment (agreement?) that while the development of US curling to reach consistent "international quality" play (ie HPP) is a long term project, the USOC is apparently setting milestones based upon immediate results.

The "correct path" to take to improve US curling to be on par with international programs has been beaten to death here. It's generally agreed by all posters that the amount of money available to the program is too limited to allow for anything more than a very focused development program. Perhaps instead of the CZ collective taking up screen space endlessly criticizing a program that they do not/can not/will not participate in they can instead devote that mental energy to coming up with actionable ideas to raise funds to expand the breadth/scope of the developmental programs.

Chief Ice Minion

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05-19-15 11:14AM
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CuriousCuz
Knee-Slider

 

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 6

Combine complete

Tweet from Face

John Shuster ‏@Shoostie2010 19h19 hours ago
Combine Day complete. What a difference a year makes.

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05-19-15 01:00PM
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VanillaIce
Administrator

 

Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Plymouth, MN
Posts: 154

Point for clarification

I just wanted to say that I am not implying that it is impossible for our teams to play well and win at the World Level. It's just not probable based on the math. And the math issue is through no fault of the teams in most cases. As stated over and over here, the path is long and expensive no matter whether you are inside or outside of the HPP.

As for the milestones, there isn't one of them listed that suggests "Win Now" to me. I actually see them as falling in lock step with the "long-term" process I mentioned.

Women
World Championships Top 6
Grand Slam Events at least 3 wins,
WCT Events at least 4 wins

Men
World Championships Top 8
Grand Slam Events at least 3 wins
WCT Events at least 4 wins

Combined
Order of Merit 2 teams in the top 18

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05-19-15 08:34PM
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hit-n-roll
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: McFarland, Wisconsin
Posts: 90

What does "at least 4 wins" mean?

Also, do we know who participated in the combine? Is this confidential?

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Curling Scores

M: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: M6 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 12:00pm CT
Church Final
Rose (9) Watch Live Curling!
Brenden Final
Guentzel (9) Watch Live Curling!
Fitzgerald Final
Hebert (9) Watch Live Curling!
Lannoye Final
Cenzalli (10) Watch Live Curling!
W: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: W6 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 4:00pm CT
Berg 5th
Scheel  Watch Live Curling!
Berg 4th
Schapman  Watch Live Curling!
Giroux 4th
Pekowitz  Watch Live Curling!
Viau 4th
Johnson  Watch Live Curling!
M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Fri, Mar 22 -- 1:00pm AT
Lott/Lott Final
Walk/Muyr (8) Watch Live Curling!
M: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 3:00am ET
Caccivio Final
Brauchli 12  (EE)
Dryburgh Final
Ringgenberg (9)
W: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 9:00am CET
Schwaller Final
Oberson (9)
Blackham Final
von Arx (9)
W: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 11:00am MT
Stroeder Final
Delorey (7)
M: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 1:00pm ET
Delorey Final
Lockhart (EE)
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