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livem1
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2011
Location:
Posts: 30

quote:
Originally posted by MoPacPrez
....but it looks like any chance of a California final is now out the window.


hey 'homer'....you can still get an all MoPac final though! ;D

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Old Post 07-20-13 01:14AM
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MiniMark
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Jan 2012
Location: DeWitt, MI
Posts: 88

My take on things

Today is the grueling day. 6 draws. Ice crew has kept things running great! With less than 48 hours of lead time before the first games, the ice was great and continues to improve. The break in the heat wave today should help even more.

Biggest day in the short life of the Lansing Curling Club yesterday as the Men grabbed a 9-8 win in an extra end, our first ever at a national event. Coming home up one with hammer...gave up a steal, but in 9 the house was slightly cleaner and Wyl buried his first draw, which the Virginia skip couldn't remove with their last stone.

Having completed my level 2 duties, now I can watch more games with a more critical eye. From what I have seen so far, the Dallas teams both stand out, as do the Kalamazoo teams. The Kazoo men lost a tough one last night as their front end struggled a bit. It will be interesting to see how they rebound, I think they have the make-up to take this thing.

In other observational news, great being able to chat with Kim and Sandra from the USCA. They are both so nice and approachable, with great ideas and outlines for arena-based clubs. The seminars given seemed to be pretty well attended from what I could see.

Mini

Riding the Kzoo bandwagon

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Old Post 07-20-13 09:13AM
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tuck
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 1952

Klein's Cuties and Mendosa's Men both drop two like an aging stripper taking off her bra. My picks are destroyed. Only Bling Bling Myer survives.

Gallagher seems to have remembered how to curl. He once used me for bait...long story. I've forgiven him and wish him well.

I hear that there will be additional restrictions on next year's entries. Curlers who, in addition to belonging to an arena club, belong to clubs with dedicated ice will not be allowed. What a load of crap! What's next? Ban those who attend bonspiels on dedicated ice? Ban those who have been playing recently on dedicated ice? Do even more to discourage curlers from joining more clubs and curling more often?

A poor decision, in my opinion. Anybody who is willing to pay dues to curl on non-dedicated arena ice should be allowed to play. Hockey ice ain't the best ice. If somebody is willing to pay good money for dues, they should be allowed. If somebody plays in an arena in the summer and a league at a dedicated club in the winter...let them in. They help the sport. They help the arena club.

Ben Tucker
So mad at Mendoza and Klein that I might start cussin'

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Old Post 07-20-13 09:56AM
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MiniMark
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Jan 2012
Location: DeWitt, MI
Posts: 88

??

Clearly, tuck's foul mood is caused by his man-crush on the Hollywood boys ruining his picks.

Like minds can disagree. While there has been discussion about such topics, I don't think any decisions have been made in that area. I purposely did not consider myself eligible to play in this event. I am President of the Lansing club, but I also curl weekly in Detroit. My main USCA dues are paid by Detroit. Lansing pays a fraction of those dues for me. The same is true, I believe, for other "dual members". If your main USCA dues are paid by the arena club, I could see an argument there for entering. But banning people who spiel or those who relocate are not realistic examples of what is likely to occur. I think a definition of "membership" could fix everything.

This is a first year event, and has been run fantastically. With a tweak here and there, I am convinced that this event will continue to grow and encourage more clubs to form, and existing clubs to get out and curl. I was initially very skeptical about this event, I will confess. It has won me over as a curler, fan of curling, and arena club curler.

Mini

May be ready to do some commentary?

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Old Post 07-20-13 11:23AM
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dbsdbs
Swing Artist

Registered: Feb 2013
Location:
Posts: 335

quote:
Originally posted by tuck
I hear that there will be additional restrictions on next year's entries. Curlers who, in addition to belonging to an arena club, belong to clubs with dedicated ice will not be allowed. What a load of crap! What's next? Ban those who attend bonspiels on dedicated ice? Ban those who have been playing recently on dedicated ice? Do even more to discourage curlers from joining more clubs and curling more often?

A poor decision, in my opinion. Anybody who is willing to pay dues to curl on non-dedicated arena ice should be allowed to play. Hockey ice ain't the best ice. If somebody is willing to pay good money for dues, they should be allowed. If somebody plays in an arena in the summer and a league at a dedicated club in the winter...let them in. They help the sport. They help the arena club.




I think that might be called the Nick Myers rule. Maybe I am wrong but it seems likely that most of the participants in this event are relatively newer curlers and Nick is an experienced and really good curler. One might argue that he does not belong here because he also curls at Nationals level, but on the other hand the newer curlers can probably learn lots from Nick. If he were not such a nice guy, there might be a greater backlash.

Tough question about eligibility and what is best for this event. I know Nick is not the only curler who would be out under this rule -- maybe a better requirement would be that participants have not curler in other playdowns in the last x months? It would be interesting to hear what other participants think about this.

Last edited by dbsdbs on 07-20-13 at 12:18PM

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Old Post 07-20-13 11:58AM
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knit1curl2
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Dec 2011
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 24

New rule: you must drink every time you see Paul Badgero on the webstream.

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Old Post 07-20-13 12:08PM
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MiniMark
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Jan 2012
Location: DeWitt, MI
Posts: 88

quote:
Originally posted by knit1curl2
New rule: you must drink every time you see Paul Badgero on the webstream.


HA! Love this. I tried to stay out of the shots but it is hard to remember to stand clear when you're at the end of the sheet.

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Old Post 07-20-13 12:24PM
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MoPacPrez
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Jul 2013
Location:
Posts: 11

Ok, I've stirred up enough trouble this week, so trying to stay out of this one... But - I don't think Nick Myers is the issue. He curls on arena ice and travels to dedicated ice. I think the issue is the people who have dedicated ice in their backyard, but "join" and arena club just to play in this event -- IF that's what happened -- I have no firsthand knowledge of that.

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Old Post 07-20-13 01:00PM
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tuck
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 1952

Uummmm...seriously doubt that anybody joins an arena club just to play in this event. Cool event and I'm glad it is off to a great start, but we're not talking The Trials here.

Nicky Myers is in because he does not play league in dedicated ice club...but Tim Klein is out because he makes a weekly pilgrimage to Connecticut once a week? A Canadian college student can play but not a curler from Alexandria because they do a two-hour round trip for one league?

Sorry. I'm sticking to my guns on this one. If you are willing to pay good money to curl league on arena ice and the USCA is taking some of that money in dues...you should be in. No need to stop these lovers-of-curling from joining all the clubs they wish.

That being said, I believe that only Ellarby (Mens) and Ellarby (Womens) are the only multi-club teams remaining in the search for gold.

Ben Tucker

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Old Post 07-20-13 01:32PM
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knit1curl2
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Dec 2011
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 24

quote:
Originally posted by MiniMark


HA! Love this. I tried to stay out of the shots but it is hard to remember to stand clear when you're at the end of the sheet.



Mini, if I had seen you it would have been a jello shot. What flavor of jello mixes with The Judge?

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Old Post 07-20-13 01:39PM
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knit1curl2
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Dec 2011
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 24

Tuck, I think most of the Wheeler team plays out of Phili and Bucks County.

I agree with you on most points. I know Wheeler has done a lot to help the Bucks County Club. No one is joining a skating ice club just to play in this event. And I agree with Mini on self regulating.

Last edited by knit1curl2 on 07-20-13 at 03:33PM

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Old Post 07-20-13 01:45PM
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MoPacPrez
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Jul 2013
Location:
Posts: 11

Jello shots is definitely a much better topic than who gets to play in this event... Totally jealous I'm not in Fort Wayne this weekend! I'm getting out the vodka and the lime jello

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Old Post 07-20-13 03:05PM
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tuck
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 1952

NO! I try to see both sides of every issue, but this is an absolute: RUM with lime jello...vodka with most other flavors. I will not be moved off my position on this controversial topic. RUM!

Ben Tucker
I mean it...rum

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Old Post 07-20-13 04:27PM
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knit1curl2
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Dec 2011
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 24

tequila with mixed melon and a slice of fresh jalapeno in about half of them.

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Old Post 07-20-13 04:43PM
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pellarby
Knee-Slider

Registered: Jul 2013
Location:
Posts: 3

quote:
Originally posted by tuck
.....
That being said, I believe that only Ellarby (Mens) and Ellarby (Womens) are the only multi-club teams remaining in the search for gold.

Ben Tucker



While I appreciate Tuck noticing us :-), both the Ellarby teams consist of players who play primarily on arena ice (and their USCA dues are paid by Dakota). However, there is a player on each team who plays mixed doubles on dedicated ice. Maybe having experience in Mixed Doubles should eliminate players from competing in this championship (he said tongue firmly planted in cheek)...

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Old Post 07-20-13 04:54PM
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MoPacPrez
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Jul 2013
Location:
Posts: 11

Good call, Tuck - next batch, rum it is...

Walsh squeaked through in that last game - way to steal two in the last end! Looks like Gallagher is coming on strong too. Can't wait to see what happens in tonight's games

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Old Post 07-20-13 05:03PM
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pellarby
Knee-Slider

Registered: Jul 2013
Location:
Posts: 3

Who is eligible? Really?

My team from Dakota CC has kept out of the debate about who should be "allowed" to play here, primarily because we are focused on this event, but also because we believe anyone who primarily plays in an arena club should be eligible. Why?

Well, I compete at events like this to improve my curling, and help my team get better. I only do this when I play against better competition. And this usually means against players and teams who have been to other National events, won cash 'spiels (on dedicated ice), or who have access to practice (dedicated) ice - unlike we arena curlers.
I don;t want to play in an event that has been lowered to the level of "ordinariness" - that is not what a championship is about. Bring-on your best curlers, your best teams, your most experienced folks, so long as they are within the rules (of being a league player in an arena club).

Raise the standard of curling at arena clubs by raising the skill level of competing curlers - don't lower the level of competitors so we can all win a "best improved" or "I participated" trophy...

And the "Myers" rule? We played Nick last night and he beat us handily - but boy did we learn a lot about ourselves and our game. With any luck, we will play him again tomorrow - and maybe even see him here next year :-)

NOTE: By "level of ordinariness", I am not bashing or commenting on anybody's skill level or dedication to curling. I just couldn't think of a better word (debate on this one over I hope)

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Old Post 07-20-13 05:23PM
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MiniMark
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Jan 2012
Location: DeWitt, MI
Posts: 88

quote:
Originally posted by knit1curl2


Mini, if I had seen you it would have been a jello shot. What flavor of jello mixes with The Judge?



There is only one jello flavor that mixes with The Judge.

Remorse.

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Old Post 07-20-13 08:51PM
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livem1
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2011
Location:
Posts: 30

As with any tournament that is 'defined' (as in not 'open skill level'), it's generally meant to group a certain population that is relatively like-skilled. 5-Unders are a good example of that.

In the case of Arenas...I'm guessing the organizers imagined mostly a population that throws 16 (or less) rocks a week, has little to no access to practice and has moderate to no control over where their stones actually end up on a per stone basis. Okay...now, that doesn't take into effect people of experienced skill that have moved to arena ice only areas and/or those that live near ded ice facilities (I have to admit, I didn't realize until this tournaments that MD/VA and MN had DI/A clubs relatively close to each other...tho I knew it's cropping up more in MA/RI/CT)

Anyway, that being said...there are clearly the 'rules' of the event ant the 'spirit' of the event. It's up to the organizers to set the parameters of eligibility based on the spirit of the event. It doesn't look like that was the case here...I don't think they saw some of these issues coming. However, I would agree/disagree with Tuck's pt about curlers that joined a club just to do this event. I'm guessing (with decent certainty) that there are at least 1 or 2 that are curling with friends perhaps and maybe joined an arena club and maybe played in a league for this event...who primarily belong to a ded ice club.

I curled on dedicated ice for 5 years (3 nights/wk avg), moved out west, took 4 years off and now only curl 1 night/wk. I can say....there seems to be a 'significant' loss in skill and consistency without 1. repetition and 2. ice that allows you to make 'normal' curling shots or allows one to 'reflect' accurately on the outcome of shots thrown from stone to stone. Maybe that's just me.

IMO, it doesn't matter what club is the 'primary' one or whatever (and I'm not speaking to any particular individual(s) here and don't pretend to know everyone's situation)....or, prior skill levels, whatever.....
...but, if one plays in a league or 2 on dedicated ice over the year and/or takes practice ice at a dedicated facility...I think that likely goes against the 'spirit' of what the organizers were thinking for this event.

I'm guessing, in general....arena clubs are perceived to be 'islands' of curling where the members don't have adequate time or conditions to build skill in order to compete with people that have any access to dedicated ice. Again, I think that's what they had in the back of their minds here.

Anyway, as the person that coordinates my club's competitive curling issues...it'll be interesting to see how this is defined next year.

Regardless....good curling to everyone left in the competition.

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Old Post 07-20-13 10:58PM
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4ftministry
Knee-Slider

Registered: Jul 2013
Location:
Posts: 1

quote:
Originally posted by pellarby


While I appreciate Tuck noticing us :-), both the Ellarby teams consist of players who play primarily on arena ice (and their USCA dues are paid by Dakota). However, there is a player on each team who plays mixed doubles on dedicated ice. Maybe having experience in Mixed Doubles should eliminate players from competing in this championship (he said tongue firmly planted in cheek)...




You can't be serious. Your wife plays at St. Paul, her third plays in Super league there. Your team has 2 members who play on multiple nights in St. Paul and you might play there as well, not sure. Just be honest about who is playing where. Where the dues get paid from as well as if someone plays mixed doubles is just a smoke screen.

Lets make it real interesting and within the spirit of the game. Play the arena nationals on ARENA ICE. Prepared and maintained in the same fashion as your home arena club does. Playing on prepared championship style ice seems to me to be a bit of a contradiction. Whats the point?

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Old Post 07-21-13 02:47AM
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knit1curl2
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Dec 2011
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 24

I disagree with the ice conditions comment. Make the ice as good as you can. This ice and I think the rocks have had some play in them. A good skip will figure out the ice. This notion that top players cannot play on skating ice is false. As Tuck stated earlier a lot of people grew up on crazy ice.

Also Ft. Wayne is not easy to get to for a lot of people. People don't want to spend good money on travel to play on ice conditions worse than at home.

As for the other issue I will ignore it and go back to thinking about my next jello shot creation. I agree with Tuck, Rum so maybe a Mojito one.

-Sue

once proud owner of a "I survived sheet 8 in St. Paul" t-shirt.

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Old Post 07-21-13 10:03AM
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pellarby
Knee-Slider

Registered: Jul 2013
Location:
Posts: 3

quote:
Originally posted by 4ftministry



You can't be serious. Your wife plays at St. Paul, her third plays in Super league there.



My mistake - I just learned that one of my wife's team does curl competitively in St Paul. But my wife playing there? I know she takes long a long time when she goes to the grocery store...is this when she is curling at SPCC? ;-)

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Old Post 07-21-13 11:02AM
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reckedum
Knee-Slider

Registered: Jul 2013
Location:
Posts: 1

Yeah, I mean - I'm a member at an arena club, and curl there with those cute little arena curlers to support their annual bonspiel... but I also curl 5 nights a week at my dedicated club. I'm obviously an arena curler - I don't see what the problem is.

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Old Post 07-21-13 12:27PM
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Third Nerd
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Dec 2008
Location:
Posts: 85

Just got back from this event. And had a blast. Met a lot of people that I don't see on the regular spiel scene and drank way too much beer.

I would say that some of you guys are way over thinking this. As it turned out, all of the teams that qualified for the playoffs were exclusively arena. (Yes I know CZ listed Ellarby against Myers but CZ got it wrong. Scholz beat Ellarby in the B qualifier.) Unless you have spoken to the people then you don't know what their intent was when they decided to organize an arena championship. Maybe their intent was to get arena players together so they could network and get ideas on how to improve their clubs and switch to dedicated facilities. If that was their intent then mission accomplished.

Why are we trying to exclude people from an event that doesn't lead to World's? As long as you are a league playing member of an arena club you should be able to play and that includes stick players. If I can't beat a stick player or any one else for that matter then I don't deserve to win and need to work on my game. I agree with Mr. Ellarby's comments above. I want to play against good teams like Myers. That is how I measure my skill level and improve.

There were only a handfull of players that play on both dedicated and arena ice. Some of these players are founding members of their arena club. It is not like they founded the club knowing that 5 years down the road the USCA would setup an arena championship. Why are we penalizing people that are trying to grow the game.

Even if there are some "Trophy Hunters" that want to play in an arena league next year just so they can play in this event I say great. Think of all the experience and skill they will bring to that arena league. Most arena clubs have a shortage of experienced members and would welcome them with open arms.

We should try and be as inclusive as possible. That is the true spirit of curling

Third Nerd

(aka Dannie Steski)
Long Island Curling Club

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Old Post 07-21-13 10:44PM
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Alice
Hitting Paint

Registered: Feb 2012
Location:
Posts: 133

Well said, Third Nerd, especially about stick players and the true Spirit of Curling!

Over the next few years, it will be fun to watch the Arena Nationals and its seminars, too. I understood those seminars were in many ways just as important as the on-ice play and players' socializing to help arena curlers and their clubs. Looking forward to reading the full report(s) in our Curling News.

Many congratulations to those who played and those who worked so hard to start this event. May it be better and better every year.

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Old Post 07-22-13 12:30AM
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FANTASY PICK'EM

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Sormunen, Aileen
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Williams, Jessica
November 28 -- 9:30 pm EST
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