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tuck
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 1914

Upon a good night sleep, I see that connections I leap to and allude to and my analogies also can miss the mark. Allow me to write better:

Jim Crow laws were based upon hate and refusing to see humanity in others. They were a national embarrassment of historical proportions. Mentioning them when discussing stick curling seems inappropriate.

Further allow me to now right in jest:

Happy Canada Day. If you want a REAL national event, start by banning truly second-class humans...those stockinghat-head, mitten-wearing, overly-polite, cottage-worshiping, probably-here-illegally Canadians. Damn Canucks shouldn't be in the back of the bus; they should be out pushing the bus.

Ben Tucker
Secretly likes Canucks...please don't tell them

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Old Post 07-02-13 08:28AM
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knit1curl2
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Dec 2011
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 24

Thank you Tuck. You forgot Rye and Ginger drinking.

Thanks to the USCA for giving us a National event. Bumps in the road which directly effect even one person suck.

Good luck to all participants. And to Fort Wayne which I am sure will host a great event.

Cheers, Sue

No so secretly loves all things North Dakota. That includes both UND and NDSU football players and sugar beet farmers

Last edited by knit1curl2 on 07-02-13 at 09:00AM

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Old Post 07-02-13 08:58AM
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Alice
Hitting Paint

Registered: Feb 2012
Location:
Posts: 111

Tuck and Sue, I am sorry if mentioning a loaded set of words was painful and many might consider overkill. I thought of being gentler by using the PGA golf cart analogy or the South African blade runner's travails last year.... but I wanted to make a compelling point. Maybe it was remembering the burning cross on my Dad's front lawn the local KKK did one hot summer night... Why was it there? The local KKK didn't like my family's religion was what my Dad was told. Maybe it was because my Grandfather was "nice" to someone the local KKK did not like. My Grandfather went out there, cold beers in hand, and knowing the burners by their shoes said, "Now, Harry, Joe, Ron.... you're going to clean this mess up by morning, right? Here are some beers for you."

I grew up being taught to fight fearlessly against any kind of discrimination.... even the subtle, unintended, or "legal" kind which some might say this stick issue is. But, this stick issue at the new arena nationals is wrong. However, there are way more nondiscriminatory people in USCA than the sort who would ever want to hurt someone or a group due to a label. I raise my glass to them.

Alice

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Old Post 07-02-13 03:20PM
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jhcurl
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: US - CT
Posts: 1147

Really getting off track here but if you feel that strongly Alice then you should write up a proposal to include "stick" curlers in any national championship not leading to Worlds. Send it to the chair of the Championship committee - Sam Williams. His info is on the USCA site. Such proposals get discussed and voted on at the fall or spring meeting.

You could also give it to your regions' USCA director(s). Complaining about it on a thread on CZ is not going to get any action, writing up a proposal will get noticed. If the proposal had the support of others that would also help.

JH
banning myself from all threads except rambling for two weeks.

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Old Post 07-02-13 04:12PM
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AlanMacNeill
Swing Artist

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 320

quote:
Originally posted by Alice

I grew up being taught to fight fearlessly against any kind of discrimination.... even the subtle, unintended, or "legal" kind which some might say this stick issue is. But, this stick issue at the new arena nationals is wrong.


There are only 4 "National" level events that should worry about International Rules and/or being exclusive...

Senior Nationals (M/W)
Nationals (M/W)
Junior Nationals (M/W)
Mixed Nationals

Every other event that the USCA sponsors (Club Nationals, Arena Nationals, Senior Men's Bonspiel...which is a different thing than Senior Nationals) does NOT lead to World competition, and exists not to service the USOC, but to provide a competitive outlet to increase the "recreational" quotient of our game.

Those tournaments (and the qualifiers thereto, if there are any) shoudl be open to all, stick, utica delivery specialists, wheelchair curlers, etc....to do otherwise is to harm the USCA's "grow the game" mission.

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Old Post 07-02-13 07:00PM
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Alice
Hitting Paint

Registered: Feb 2012
Location:
Posts: 111

Thanks, JH, for the suggestions. I certainly will be chatting wth my USCA regional rep if the arena nationals stick rule is not improved in less than 2 weeks as well as figuring out why USCA and WCF have different stick release rules and if there is any interest at WCF to create an open worlds.

Alan, what is the "Utica" delivery?

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Old Post 07-02-13 10:47PM
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MiniMark
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Jan 2012
Location: DeWitt, MI
Posts: 81

quote:
Originally posted by Alice

Alan, what is the "Utica" delivery?



So hard to describe. Slider goes on the opposite foot, other foot is in the (wrong) hack... there are videos on youtube. It is quite a sight, yet those who use it are very accurate. But I believe it is not a "legal" delivery according to WCF and Championship rules.

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Old Post 07-03-13 09:48AM
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AlanMacNeill
Swing Artist

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 320

quote:
Originally posted by jhcurl

The GNCC has at least one "stick" only curling spiel.


They do? News to me...and I'm in the GNCC...maybe I need to pay more attention now that I'm no longer in under-5.

quote:


The major problem is that the US has different rules for stick curling release than the WCF. Make all your stick curlers release as follows:

The stone must be clearly released from the delivery stick before either foot of the player delivering the stone has reached the tee line at the delivering end.

then we can talk.


I'd make that trade in a heartbeat...hell, I'd deliver with nothing more than a push from the hack (hmm...wait...if I'm willing to do that...wonder if I could get an accurate throw just delivering without actually leaving the hack...something to try come October and ice...)

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Old Post 07-03-13 09:53AM
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jhcurl
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: US - CT
Posts: 1147

There is nothing against the rules about the "Utica delivery". It just looks weird because the right handers are pushing off with their left foot. They are using the left hack so that is the correct hack.

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Old Post 07-03-13 11:59AM
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TakeItOut!
Hitting Paint

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Fairport, NY
Posts: 101

Arena Championships on TESN

We've signed Ft. Wayne as a new TESN affiliate and the Arena Championships will be streamed. Details and draw info to come.

TESN Ft. Wayne

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Joe Calabrese

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Old Post 07-08-13 08:24PM
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MiniMark
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Jan 2012
Location: DeWitt, MI
Posts: 81

Outstanding

I'd be honored to help out when I'm not timing or on-ice.

Mini

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Old Post 07-09-13 01:46PM
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hackfreeze
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 24

quote:
Originally posted by AlanMacNeill


There are only 4 "National" level events that should worry about International Rules and/or being exclusive...

Senior Nationals (M/W)
Nationals (M/W)
Junior Nationals (M/W)
Mixed Nationals

Every other event that the USCA sponsors (Club Nationals, Arena Nationals, Senior Men's Bonspiel...which is a different thing than Senior Nationals) does NOT lead to World competition, and exists not to service the USOC, but to provide a competitive outlet to increase the "recreational" quotient of our game.

Those tournaments (and the qualifiers thereto, if there are any) shoudl be open to all, stick, utica delivery specialists, wheelchair curlers, etc....to do otherwise is to harm the USCA's "grow the game" mission.



Mixed has no worlds or else Derek and team would have USA on their back and planning a trip -- guess they could've brought a stick curler with them to Nationals....

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Old Post 07-09-13 06:07PM
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AlanMacNeill
Swing Artist

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 320

Sorry, should have been more specific...mixed doubles...which does...

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Old Post 07-09-13 10:22PM
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fischercw
Knee-Slider

Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Posts: 1

Ice Quality at Arena Nationals

Hi everyone, I wanted to set everyone straight on ice quality for Arena Club Nationals. I am the President of the Fort Wayne Curling Club and host of the event.

Here are the key points:
- The USCA is sending Dave Steveteig and Kevin Madsen to make the ice
- Fort Wayne's ice is fast for arena ice normally, without special ice prep. We are typically about 24 second ice and have seen ice as fast as 25 seconds.
- We are bringing in de-ionized water for pebbling and will have a scraper - all things that arena curlers are not accustomed to
- The ice team has from Tuesday at 10:30 pm until we start the event on Thursday morning. Not nearly the amount of time that we have for our Summerspiel to make Slam quality ice, but the team feels comfortable that they can make quality ice in this time period.

In a nutshell, we should see much better ice than arena curlers are used to but it will not be absolutely perfect. So the important skills of reading the ice will still be in play.

I look forward to meeting all the participants next week and WE WILL BE STREAMING ON TESN. Unfortunately, we won't have excellent vantage points (i.e. camera's above the rings) but people will be able to follow the games.

Feel free to reach out to me at Craig@FortWayneCurling.com if anyone has any questions.

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Old Post 07-10-13 02:18PM
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tuck
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 1914

I've been watching a little of Arena Nationals on TESN. Cool split screen where you see the house on one side and the shooter on the other.

I'm a bit surprised to see Mendosa, Meyers, Gallagher and Klien all on one half of the draw, but seeding the field would have been impossible...so the chips land where they may. A tough draw is a poor excuse.

Temple, Walsh and Wiggins are all on the top half of the Ladies draw. Temple and Walsh met in the opening game with Temple winning. Don't be surprised to see Walsh coming back out of the B qualifiers...maybe all the way to the title.

The ice looks a touch green and slow. Games and scrapping will take that away soon and World ice will show up. The draw will be tough on the ice crew. Very early starts with some very late games.

I'm looking forward to watching more. I see mistakes being made and it frustrates me. As we get further along in the brackets, I'm hoping for some good curling.

Ben Tucker
Wishing I was in Bismarck curling in the summerspiel or in Fort Wayne doing a little commentary

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Old Post 07-18-13 04:01PM
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TakeItOut!
Hitting Paint

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Fairport, NY
Posts: 101

Refresh your browsers

We had a youtube problem today and had to make a behnd the scenes change. If you are having trouble viewing the games live, refresh your browser and you should be able to view the games now. Sorry for the trouble. Youtube is a new medium for us and it has its challenges.

__________________
Joe Calabrese

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Old Post 07-19-13 10:38AM
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tuck
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 1914

The Godfather (Joey C.) will often use the plural noun "we" when refering to Brian. Brian had trouble. OK. Fine. Fix it before I come out there and kick some tail.

Love cheapshots at BA Anderson. One of the great pleasures in my life.

Wiggins edges the Philly Fillies. A preview of the finals? Perhaps.

I'm looking forward to this afternoon's matchup of Klein and Meyers. Nicky Bling Bling Meyers is a good player. The Long Island squad is deep...but their names are too cute. Timmy, Dannie, Mikey and Joey? Look for the Long Island Cuties to score an uspet in an extra end.

Action down in the B Qualifier will see teams fighting for the right to play three games on Saturday. Good thing they are going eight ends or Doc Eigner would need to set up an ER.

Tuck

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Old Post 07-19-13 11:59AM
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TakeItOut!
Hitting Paint

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Fairport, NY
Posts: 101

As much as...

As much as I'd like to throw Brian under the bus... this one isn't his fault. Youtube wanted to end the event early and shut down the avenue to stream. We (I) created a new event and we're back up and running. Thanks to Andrew in Ft. Wayne for alerting me to the problem and doing the streaming. They are doing a great job. We had to go to youtube at the last minute and it's a learning experience.

Don't fault Tuck for any of this... while he is unaware that a trip to NYC puts him nowhere near Rochester, NY - he's still the most recognized voice in curling webstreaming.

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Joe Calabrese

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Old Post 07-19-13 12:52PM
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tuck
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 1914

I thought you threw away The Bus? Dear lord, don't run over BA with that monstrosity.

Just watched Eckstrand from Kalamazoo beat Scholz from Colorado Springs. Eckstrand runs a good house. Scholz throws a good stone. Scholz was always facing three when he got into the hack. The ice looked better and both teams seemed slow to pick up on the draw weight. Scholz made a nice hit-and-stick against three. He also made a nice draw against three...but the pressure finally did its job and his few misses were costly.

Scholz has a hybred delivery that unfolds in stages. Looks like Bob LaBonte back in the old days, but I don't remember any Scholz curling out of Minot.

(Yes, just like Henry Higgins can tell where Eliza Doolittle learned to speak...you can tell where curlers come from. Iron Rangers shoot far different than St. Paul curlers who shoot nothing like Madison curlers. Pete Fenson and Shawn Rojeski will fool you because they have a fair amount of Ranger in their Bemidji slides.)

My prediction of a Long Island Cutie upset over the favorite Bling Bling Meyers fell as flat as the chest on a runway model. Bling Bling is looking like a steam roller.

Ben Tucker

PS Hey! TESN! Add some commentary.

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Old Post 07-19-13 05:31PM
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tuck
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 1914

Meanwhile on the Ladies side:

Walsh is stomping through the B Qualifier. Temple narrowly defeated them in the opening game, but that only seems to have pissed them off. Temple went on to drop the next two. Don't be surprised to see Walsh in the finals.

Wiggins v. Knott and Senneker v. Ellarby in the A. Senneker has the good linescores so far, but the name sounds too much like the golfer who four-putted from short distance in the British Open today. Hey, when you don't know the players you need to reach for things.

I'm liking Wiggins, Senneker and Walsh for the medal stand right now.

Ben Tucker

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Old Post 07-19-13 05:40PM
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MoPacPrez
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Jul 2013
Location:
Posts: 11

Hey Tuck - who are you liking on the men's side as the qualifiers? My guess would be Mendoza, Wiesen, Myers, and for me, it's a tossup between Gallagher and Klein.

Mendoza and Wiesen are usually in the mix at our club national playdowns, so I know those two very well. I wouldn't count Gallagher out just yet, but I guess the real test will be tomorrow afternoon.

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Old Post 07-19-13 06:59PM
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spiroth
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Apr 2012
Location:
Posts: 16

Garnet Eckstrand definitely knows his way around the house. Back in the day he was Kevin Martin's skip. If he can keep his games close, he'll probably find a way to win. Great guy, too.

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Old Post 07-19-13 07:18PM
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tuck
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 1914

Wiensen (San Fran) plays Eckstrand (Kalamazoo) for the first playoff spot out of the A. Eckstrand has the better linescores, but Wiensen looks like they came through a tougher path. Still, I like the game he calls and the way he runs a house, so gimme Eckstrand.

The second spot out of the A brackets will be Bling Bling Meyers (Texas) against Ellarby. Bling Bling is looking like a bulldozer. I ain't pickin' against him again. Bling Bling gets a spot here.

Down in the first B Bracket, Mendosa is looking pretty good. Three games tomorrow, however, with the last one against the loser of the Meyers/Ellarby game. It won't be as dramatic as Marathon Mike Farbelow's run to get into Nationals this year...but I like Mendosa to win the spot.

For the final spot; did Gallagher finally remember how to curl? Tough B Bracket with Klein (the Long Island Cuties of Timmy, Dannie, Mikey and Joey) in their way along with other teams. The Eckstrand/Wiensen loser also drops into this bracket. Is it time for me to jump off the Klein bandwagon and pick the loser of the Eckstrand/Wiensen match? All logic would suggest that the loser of the Eckstrand/Wiensen game will be the final playoff team. Fortunately, logic has little to do with my picks. My heart says Klein, but my head says Wiensen. I'm going with my heart. Klein for the final spot.

So gimme Eckstrand, Meyers, Mendosa and Klein. Bet heavy that Wiensen makes me look stupid.

Ben Tucker

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Old Post 07-19-13 07:26PM
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tuck
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 1914

50/50 on the picks. Not bad...not good.

Wiggins takes a loss to Knot (Dallas). Anne and the gals drop to the B Qualifier Final with Walsh heading her way...assuming Walsh gets past the team from Virginia that pushed them to the final rock in their opening matchup.

So my picks for the medal stand of Wiggins, Walsh and Senneker ain't gonna happen because Walsh/Wiggins are in the same bracket. Can I end up with two out of three? Maybe.

Time to narrow my Final Four in the Men's to just three. I had Klein, Myers (spelled better this time), Eckstrand and Mendosa. Just like my mediocre predictions in the Ladies, Eckstrand and Klein are now in the same bracket...so one of them needs to go...and Gallegher can ruin it all in that bracket if he remembers how to curl.

Gimme Myers, Mendosa and Klein. Props to Wiesen who has already earned the A1 Qualifier spot in the playoffs...but I'm sticking with Myers, Mendosa and Klein.

Ben Tucker
More accurate than your local weatherman...but not by much

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Old Post 07-19-13 10:58PM
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MoPacPrez
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Jul 2013
Location:
Posts: 11

Well, this stinks... Glad my SF crew won their game, and even happier I called it, but it looks like any chance of a California final is now out the window.

But man, I watched that Myers game, and that triple TO was nice - I'm a believer. I think the medal stand will have Myers, Wiesen, and Klein.

Much love to the Hollywood boys, but I'm a homer.

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