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chapnlie
Swing Artist

Registered: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 267

Re: My point...

quote:
Originally posted by VanillaIce
My point exactly. They were elected to "represent". Let them do that and hold them accountable.

And nobody suggested taking the discussion down. I simply asked that the official document photos be removed. Put it this way, would you allow all of your official company records and documents to be posted publicly for all to see? Let's be real here. The USCA is a business just like any other. You may not agree with all of the policies but they do have a right to some privacy for good reason.



While I appreciate your point regarding representation, please explain how this discussion is harming the USCA? Also, you suggest on the one hand that we should share our concerns with our representatives, and on the other deny us access to the proposal? Makes no sense.

I will agree with your comment that the USCA has a long way to go on communication. Some suggest interested parties should attend the BoD meetings, but it's near impossible to find information on the location and schedule even on the USCA website. And the posting of meeting minutes on the website is so tardy it is insulting to the USCA membership. In this digital age, the USCA should do a much better job of communicating with its membership.

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Old Post 05-08-13 05:37PM
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VanillaIce
Hitting Paint

Registered: Nov 2005
Location: St. Michael, MN USA
Posts: 130

What I meant

I simply meant that this document was obviously not supposed to be a publicly displayed item at this point. And to do so could be viewed as an ethical issue for the organization. When and if it we're supposed to go to the membership,the AAC and the directors would have been responsible for that communication and discussion. I know that may not sit well with some, but that is a big part of the representative process.

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Old Post 05-08-13 05:59PM
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Dcasper
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Jun 2011
Location:
Posts: 21

Is this subject to a vote? if so by whom or what committee? Pardon my being naive... I despise curling politics, and rarely feel moved to get involved.

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Old Post 05-08-13 06:23PM
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AlanMacNeill
Swing Artist

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 342

IF this occurs, then the USCA can find Officials elsewhere...I will not officiate at any USCA sponsored event in any capacity so long as Our National Champions are not the team representing us at Worlds.

The Olympics, I can see having a special qualifying tournament, because it's once every four years, so long as all four year's USA Champion teams get a chance to be in it if they wish....but World's?

IF you can't be the best in our nation, you can't be the best in the world. You prove you're the best in our nation on the ice, in head to head competition, under the crucible of having to win *THIS* game to make it.

You're right, it doesn't affect me directly, even if I was eligible (I'm not, because I use a stick, so I will forever be second or third class) I'm not good enough...but to deny everyone a chance if they can step up, just because teams (most of whom would have been IN the HPP...) failed to medal for a few years....yeah...no.

I'm not paying money out of my own pocket to travel to and officiate at Just Another Bonspiel, Only With Time Clocks. I pay money to support OUR National Champions and Help Determine Our World Championship Representatives.

And yeah, I know...one level 2 official ain't worth a hill of beans in the grand scheme of things...but I'm going to make my personal stand, even if it means nothing.

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Old Post 05-08-13 06:30PM
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TakeItOut!
Hitting Paint

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Fairport, NY
Posts: 101

Lighten things up a bit

Hey Tuck, the NASCAR plan may be looking better and better. jk

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Old Post 05-08-13 06:36PM
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dbsdbs
Swing Artist

Registered: Feb 2013
Location:
Posts: 319

Re: Ethics

quote:
Originally posted by VanillaIce
Alice,

So for the the 100th time, talk to your Regional Rep or AAC rep if you have issues or need information that you are not getting from the website.



This reminds me of advice to attend the most recent BoD meeting. I actually thought about doing so and went to the USCA website for details. The only info available was that the meeting was in Minneapolis -- does not narrow it down quite enough. I also looked for minutes of prior meetings only to find that none had been posted in over a year.
And, unfortunately, most curlers do not know who their Regional Rep or AAC rep is. Fact is most curlers do not know they are members of the USCA. Sad to say the USCA is probably lucky that is the case because if curlers realized the how much they were paying to USCA [for ???] they might wonder about the value of the USCA to other than competitive curlers. But that I guess is a whole other issue.

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Old Post 05-08-13 06:55PM
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AK267
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Omaha, Nebraska, USA
Posts: 1546

quote:
Originally posted by dbsdbs
In addition to asking curlers to play in a Nationals where winning gets them nothing but a trophy, how does USCA get curling clubs to host a Nationals that really now is virtually meaningless?



By the looks of it, Nationals will be played in arenas where sports associations will place bids.


Broomfield, Philly, GB, Fargo, Philly, etc. I can only imagine the overtures from other cities at this time (I even sent a request to my local sports commission in Omaha to look into it).

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Old Post 05-08-13 07:31PM
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AK267
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Omaha, Nebraska, USA
Posts: 1546

In Canada, their process has evolved over the years. National Champs plus bonspiel winners in select events. Now, it's a three year grind where teams earn pts for their slots.

No more "one-hit wonders" where a hot bonspiel winner gets a slot. Everything has a process where the cream rises to the top. No more part timers, it's all pro now.

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Old Post 05-08-13 07:44PM
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Frykenstein
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Mar 2009
Location:
Posts: 43

quote:
Originally posted by rjl
What's the point of even trying to play down now? This is going to turn into an elite sport that stifles the number of competitive curlers.

I don't have the time to dedicate myself to curling in Canada every weekend. I however would love the opportunity to play against our top teams at nationals to get that experience. But without the opportunity to advance, why even register. I doubt I'm the only one that feels this way.

This new system may produce medals in the near term, but what is the long-term cost?


I don't understand. You want to go to nationals for the experience of playing America's top teams (which you could easily do at half a dozen US-based cash spiels), but you're outraged by the idea that if you actually win--something you don't apparently aspire to--you might not get to be Team USA. Really?

The proposal is flawed, but this isn't why. The HPP's mission isn't to make weekend warriors' curling fantasies come true. It's to improve our success at Worlds and the Olys (where curling is already elite).

I don't mean to criticize you personally. I don't aspire to elite curling any more than you seem to, and I have played down "just for the experience", so I get that. But anybody who's not genuinely interested in investing time and commitment doing what it takes to compete with the world's best should, with all due respect, zip it. Or, better yet, channel that anger into a relevant argument. Like that the proposal will likely do nothing to make our best teams better than they are now.

In the meantime, why not hit the social spiels with the rest of us and just enjoy the game? Being bitter because somebody took away a dream you don't really have seems like a waste of time.

mf

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Old Post 05-08-13 08:38PM
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Gerry
CZ Founder

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 3375

First thing to remember is this proposal is still in the preliminary stages with several important factors yet to be worked out. Input from posters is certainly something worthwhile, rather then throwing out the whole idea.

VALUE OF NATIONALS

This is probably the biggest sticking point right now. This proposal is still supposed to make Nationals an important part of going to the Worlds.

Under a USTRS (US Team Ranking System) the Nationals could be worth 45 points to win, 35 for 2nd, 30 for 3rd and 20 for 4th. For this proposal, you could make it worth whatever it can be. Is 45 enough?

Using this formula above, Brady Clark would have still been the season leader, and Tyler George would have been the season leader had they won, because no USA Men's team really had a strong season on the Order of Merit last year.

Erika Brown would the Women's USTRS leader by 31 points. Had she reached the playoffs (20 points minimum), she would have clinched the berth had Pottinger won. Should the team going to Worlds reach a minimum standard at Nationals? Maybe placing in the medals (minimum 3rd place) is a requirement? Means the team still has to play well at Nationals, even if they have a big lead?

One option listed was that the US Nationals winner would be the first to be invited to the Continental Cup as well. A great experience to compete on arena ice to prepare for next year's Nationals.

FUNDING OPTIONS

The other thing about Nationals is that like in Sweden, you could make winning mean you become a funded team the next season. If you come out of the blue, surprise everyone and win, you'll get money and coaching to help sustain that success and live the dream.

BENEFITS TO THE SYSTEM

Now, the reason behind creating a season long race for the Nationals is to toughen up teams and make them stronger in the long run. We'll be unlikely to see a huge improvement at the World level in the short term, but it will create a race all season long that will encourage teams to play the best event to play for the points and plan out their schedule this way.

It will organically grow the competitive level of curling at the top level in the USA, as teams will play 1-2 more events to top up their points and give themselves the best possible chance to clinch their spot at Nationals.

This has worked in Ontario through the OCT, where teams are chasing Grand Slams, have been playing for Pre-Trials and Trials spots and the overall level of the game has improved immensely over the last 5 years. Teams are playing a lot more and the results are showing.

The Swiss used a system like this for their Olympics berths, and we've seen Michel and de Cruz break onto the World scene, and on the Women's side, there's now 3 teams inside the Top 20 with 2012 World Champions Team Ott being chased by Mirjam Ott and Michele Jaeggi, all 3 of which were in the Players' Championship.

FUNDING INCENTIVES HARD TO OVERCOME?

While funded teams will have easier access to the Canadian events (World Curling Tour and Order of Merit events) where the big points are, money is no guarantee of success. Team McCormick was funded last year and went into the Nationals with a little over 7 points. Pottinger (10.550) and Potter (3.500) were both funded women's teams and neither made much noise.

For a team who wants to put themselves into contention, you don't need to make an "every weekend in Canada" commitment at this point. Plan to play 3-4 Canadian events and if these teams make points there along with the events you play closer to home, they'll set themselves up for success. It creates a system where teams will push each other to become better, and everyone's skill level will get better.

It's the opposite of a selection process where all the funding goes into a system that targets one team. Everyone starts the season at 0, and if teams put the work into into the entire season, and the results will come.

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Old Post 05-08-13 09:29PM
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Alice
Hitting Paint

Registered: Feb 2012
Location:
Posts: 121

Ethics and Budgets

Ask my regional rep for info if the board can't get full disclosure themselves?!? Rick's "proposal".... lots of words but too many details blanked.... and after all the words he just is asking for a board "endorsement" with a strong reminder to them they'd already given him and the HP staff total authority to fill all holes. Amazing. Classic mushroom treatment. Y'all know that what that is: get stuffed in a dark room and fed you know what.

OK, someone wants an ethics discussion about nonprofit corporation board deliberation disclosures. Let's start with the overidding law behind this entire forum thread with the US federal code about what the USOC must do (36 U.S. Code Chapter 2205). No mention of ethics there. No, just lots of directives about "amateur" sports. Dead silence about "professional" athletes. "Sorry!," to professional East Germany and its drug fest which hurt so many lives; to the Soviets with their Army teams and defecting athletes; and to more recent state-sponsored Olympians who might not be able to graduate from high school. Yeah, North Korea! Let's do what they do for shiny medals!! Chinese ladies badminton for ethics guidance anyone?

But, there's plenty of federal law about some of the USOC's required but lessor known corporate purposes auch as getting more women, minorities and those with disabilities into sports. And, USOC money is subject to full federal disclosure laws starting with the procedure in 36 USC Section 220511. By that federal law, the USOC must report every four years its financials and all sorts of other information to its chartering body, the US Congress. June 1, 2015 is the next due date.

Isn't USCA a Wisconsin nonprofit corporation? What are its State laws on ethics and disclosures by its nonprofit corportions? I'd be surprised if the USCA board is forbidden from disclosing why and how money from the federally chartered "patriotic organization" USOC is spent. Or has our board taken a blood oath never ever to spill such secrets to anyone anytime? In normal nonprofit board practice only deliberations on real estate negotiations, lawsuit strategy, and hiring and firing decisions are kept closed and confidential.

But, I hear someone thinking, "Alice, you are just slinging arrows and not offering solutions." Well.... to find real solutions the board needs full disclosures starting with what USCA can and can't do with USOC money instead of thinking it must fully endorse an HP program supposedly "required" (yet without written directives) by USOC or else US men are condemned from now forward never to return to the Olympics. Once the USCA board has all facts it can decide each year what percentage of USOC money it can spend on what things. Budgets are a board's duty. It also has a fiduciary duty to its dues paying members to decide what percentage of funds should be spent from which pot on overhead instead of letting such expenditures be hidden in vague budgets which are not disclosed each and every year to the membership.

Last edited by Alice on 05-09-13 at 12:03AM

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Old Post 05-08-13 09:47PM
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Curlrock
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2011
Location:
Posts: 66

Vanilla Ice stated, " To me, medals are not the goal........". However, everyone posting here needs to realize that is the USOC's ONLY goal. All they want is the top six men and top six women curlers of their choice to make it to the Olympics. I think the people at the top of the USCA need to realize that their membership of over 10,000 become concerned when, another organization only interested in the top 10-12 curlers, starts to influence the decision making of their organization.

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Old Post 05-08-13 11:06PM
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tuck
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 1924

It is great to see many posts and many posters showing their deep concern for Our Game. My initial reactions were shared less publicly as I try not to (as Chubb poetically described) "defecate" on an ideas to improve our finishes at Worlds.

Withholding my opinions has become difficult, however, because of the repeated statement that this "is still only a proposal". Gerry, John and others: To the best of my knowledge, this significant change of policy is being pushed to be set policy within two weeks. That misses my definition of a "proposal". It may not yet be in its finished form, but it cannot be dismissed from urgency because it is still in its youth. Time is of the essence.

I have no answer for Dropkin The Ancient's question about whatever format we use, we are now playing against professionals with no other jobs. Format and World Team Selection seem to be pissing in the ocean. I think we need an entirely different HPP approach based on depth and coaching.

I remain unsure that, over the past three Mens Worlds (Fenson, McCormick and Clark), a Points Leader would have finished any higher in the standings. Is the Points Leader significantly better or simply better funded?

I believe, Peteski, that Scotland is always won by one of their High Performance teams...because only HP teams are allowed to play. I'm not certain of it, but I think that is the case.

I do know that growth in Scotland and Sweden (nations held up as a good example for us) is near zero. I do know that we are the Media Darlings of the Winter Olympics. I leave you to draw your own conclusions. I realize that we need to be a part of the Olympics in order to be Media Darlings, but we have two genders and two chances...and will we sacrifice principle to ensure both spots? Alas, this does nothing to ensure anything.

Why hasn't the discussion included Womens? Is it because they are doing well at Worlds? Why change both?

I'm impressed with the posts by DCasper and MGulseth. One is a booze hound and the other is a baseball player...neither of those cultures known for intelligent writing...but thought provoking points of view. Just kidding. Casper isn't really a booze hound and booze hounds make great writers.

That's enough paragraphs started with "I". I am, however, feeling a large defecation coming on...sorry, Chubb.

Speed skating is selected because people fall down. Same for curling?

Ben Tucker

PS 'Nilla: "Why is it so hard to connect the dots?" I guess I'm just dumb. You never used to write with such arrogance. You have never, ever spoken to anyone with such arrogance in all the years I've known you. Frustration? Cut it out. It's not convincing and lots of us need convincing.

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Old Post 05-09-13 12:16AM
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Gerry
CZ Founder

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 3375

quote:
Originally posted by tuck
I remain unsure that, over the past three Mens Worlds (Fenson, McCormick and Clark), a Points Leader would have finished any higher in the standings. Is the Points Leader significantly better or simply better funded?


I 100% agree with this point, tuck. In fact, I looked up the points from the last 3 years, and under the system of using full points for the US Nationals to win (1st=45, 2nd=35, 3rd=30, 4th=20), all 3 teams would have still been the Worlds Representatives.

On the Women's side, Lank/Pottinger and Brown would have been the same Worlds representatives from the last 3 years as well, with this year being the first year the team would have been decided before the final was played. Brown had a solid season on Tour, and will start next season no lower the 15th ranked in the World on the Order of Merit.

We could look at the results and say, why change it then? We're getting the best team already?

The goals of a system like this is to encourage teams to play more, drive themselves into the events that make themselves better. Instill the drive to be great all season long. Too many are happy with the status-quo and then taking their shot at the Nationals.

To start next season, this similar system that the Swiss use to select their Olympic team now sees 4 women's teams in the Top 25 and 2 men's teams in the Top 20 to start next year.

It drives competition to improve. If the goal is now to post results all season, then teams will push each other and be forced to work harder at it.

Organic growth, not requiring millions of dollars of funding.

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Old Post 05-09-13 01:17AM
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tuck
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 1924

Switzerland has a lot of curlers in a small geographic area. They have lots of Tour events within easy distance. The USA has many advantages (like being closest to Canada and a huge population), but a vast geography is hurdle we must overcome. I see the Swiss as taking over for Scotland, Sweden and Norway as the leading European curling power in the near future.

I'm not sure that I agree with Gerry on all of this. That will not shock him. I still think the world of John Benton. That will probably won't shock him either.

Does the USOC care only about medals? We are told this often and I believe most of it. Do they care about fair play? Do they care about open access? Do they care about Olympic ideals? Do they care about American ideals? I don't know. I suspect that they do.

More and more, the High Performance staff is saying, "We don't want you" to the curler who isn't totally committed...the curler who isn't spending lots of money on travel. Maybe this is right. Maybe we don't want to be represented at Worlds by a team that isn't deeply committed...a team that doesn't workout...a team the seldom travels far.

But by saying "We don't want you", where does our next bunch of athletes come from? Competitive curling is a series of steps and top players tend to forget that. Rare are the Pete Fensons of the nation that step from Juniors onto a National contender. By continuing every year to dissuade participation, we are limiting ourselves to the current aging top teams and a very few graduating Juniors of high caliber.

In the midst of all of this, remember that the HP staff cares very much about curling. They believe that World success and Olympic exposure are paramount to growth. They are not wrong. I disagree with this particular step, but I don't question their motives. I question their foresight and their sense of fair play, but I concede that they are trying to fulfill their duties.

I believe this "proposal" is shortsighted. I see it as contrary to the Olympic ideals. I see it as un-American. I see it as going away from our strengths and threatens our future.

It has been predictable. The USOC insists on competitive programs being run by hire professionals with limited interference from amateur boards. Such professionals are judged in the short term and so that becomes their focus.

Ben Tucker

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Old Post 05-09-13 08:41AM
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Dcasper
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Jun 2011
Location:
Posts: 21

I totally agree with *gasp* Tuck's last post... and bonus points for playing the unamerican card....

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Old Post 05-09-13 10:05AM
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youngen
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Jan 2009
Location:
Posts: 31

The fact of the matter is IT IS EVERY USA COMPETITIVE CURLERS' FAULT for continual changes to the process. I say this because everyone had the ability to make a choice. They could have chosen to dedicate every part of their existence to winning at the highest level no matter what other costs were in front of them. Or, they could have (and did) chosen to be just good enough to succeed on the stage in front of them to make it to Nationals, and maybe Worlds. Everyone makes choices!!! If you chose not to dedicate your life to curling and being THE BEST then stop complaining like you are entitled to the title. If I can't win a gold medal in Sochi, it is not USOC's fault, or the USCA's fault, or Derek Brown's fault or anyone else's fault but my own. Changes in the process should not change your goals or aspirations AT ALL! If they do, you are not cut out to compete. The only thing this changes is the planning involved to achieve your goals!

Canadians elite curlers aren't entirely professional curlers and still have a job for the majority of their life. But they found a way to balance the rest of their life with the commitment to achieve their goals. And the fact that we don't have their numbers in the USA doesn't mean squat. Every athlete still has access to train and reach that level if they REALLY want it.

It is time to stop measuring ourselves against each other, and measure up to the rest of the world. Everyone with a TV has seen the level needed to get there. If you aren't there, you aren't trying hard enough. Does the USA have the talent to win at the highest level? I think so. But has everyone with that talent trained enough to use it and win consistently? Obviously not. And some may retort this with complaints about funding and time commitments. I say you didn't plan appropriately to achieve your goal then.

Am I a little upset that if I were to win Nationals next year I would most assuredly not go to Worlds based on the schedule my team plays? Of course I am. But, I know that it was my fault as I did not commit hard enough to attaining it.

Maybe some of the attractive mystique around our game is the ability of everyone to do it. But the time has come that thoughts like that are outdated. I for one no longer want our Olympic athletes to be the only ones in the village who can't touch their toes. I think for our sport to be taken seriously, we need to take it more seriously ourselves. It really is every competitive curlers fault. Accept your share of the blame, and start moving in a new direction of full committal. If we start now, we may avoid USOC un-recognizing the USCA as our NGB and simply handpicking Olympians without our input. If you want to have any sort of democratic process at all, it is our responsibility to train, play and win at the same level as the rest of the World before we no longer have the chance to do so.

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Old Post 05-09-13 10:46AM
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mr. lucky
Hitting Paint

Registered: Nov 2007
Location:
Posts: 104

We have tinkered with the HP plan every year that I can remember with the same relative results. The only side we haven・t addressed is coaching. Maybe there is a correlational there. Higgins was supposed implement a coaching program but wasted five years and a quarter million, then left town with us holding an empty bag. What・s worse is that we had a vibrant coaching program in place when he came. He stopped that program until it could be made more :intentional; god in hate his BS.

I・m not talking about National coaches. They cannot coach multiple teams without conflict. Some of the HP players at the WUGS trials were terrible technically. I・ll bet they shot 50%. There were easy fixes to their problems yet no one on the staff :fixed them;. Neither did they have team coaches. They were set up to fail.

Every team/all our national teams have performance gaps that only a trained embedded coach can identify and repair. I have played the game, and coached the game. I as a coach would never let me as a player, play as I do. The point here is teams can say they don・t need coaching but they all do. I think teams would be receptive to coaching if the definition of a coach was clear. The roll of a curling coach shouldn・t be the team manager or boss, but rather an integral part of the team. Another teammate if you will whose roll it is to fill those areas of expertise that the team doesn・t have the time or training to do. Teams should select a coach based on those needs and team chemistry. This by definition makes them better. If our teams are better, our results will be better. Look, I own my own business because I don・t want a boss. I don・t want to answer to anyone but myself. Yet, I found that I didn・t do my best because of the lack of oversight. My remedy was to make myself responsible to my employees. I am now much better at my job.
The new system won・t work without each team having a qualified coach. The old system would have worked if those teams would have had a qualified coach. It・s not the system; it・s the lack of coaching. Tuck would have been a national champ he you would have asked me to coach him :-)

Our athletes are is talented as any in the world.
We need to fund coaching and trained coaches
Sorry but coaching is the solution

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Old Post 05-09-13 11:13AM
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Curlrock
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2011
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Posts: 66

I think Youngen is exactly what the USOC is looking for. If he/she looks good on TV all the better.

To Tucks point, people do fall in speedskating and I'm sure the safety nets are in place because of it. My point is that I believe the USOC has had an easier time dictating who performs internationally in other sports. I suspect they are getting impatient and influincing the decisions of the USCA. Again they dod not care about the sport of curling only winning medals as Tuck has already mentioned.

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misty1
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Registered: Sep 2011
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This kind of thing just makes a national playdown potentially pointless. A team might win the national championship but still wont get to rep their country at the worlds. The whole point of a national championship is to move to worlds so if your going to move to a system like this then why hold one?

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Old Post 05-09-13 12:09PM
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danel1
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Jan 2009
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its actually fun to imagine all the scenarios. A team having it wrapped up to go to worlds before the start of Nationals. A team not making the playoff at Nationals but still are the World Rep based on points. A team selected to go to the Worlds makes it to the National finals but the other team boycotts the final because they cant get to worlds and wants to make a point. It would be like watching a car crash in slow motion. Messy

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Old Post 05-09-13 12:15PM
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chapnlie
Swing Artist

Registered: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 267

quote:
Originally posted by danel1
its actually fun to imagine all the scenarios...


Maybe USCA should check with Tom Brewster for some insight. He skips Scotland to silver place finishes at two consecutive Worlds, defeats David Murdoch et al to qualify his 2013 team for the Worlds, only to have the Scottish Association demotes him to third to insert David Murdoch as skip of 'his' team. To add insult to injury, Tom even got benched for 3 games at the World (but they let him back on the ice in time to capture the bronze medal in Victoria).
Yes, the Scots were able to earn the bronze medal with David Murdoch at skip but, unfortunately for the US, the USCA has absolutely no one like David Murdoch in the wings...

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AlanMacNeill
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Registered: Sep 2011
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I just want to know what the USCA will do when their handpicked, blond haired Wisconsin bred boys come home 11th next year.

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Keaner
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 25

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry

The goals of a system like this is to encourage teams to play more, drive themselves into the events that make themselves better. Instill the drive to be great all season long. Too many are happy with the status-quo and then taking their shot at the Nationals.

To start next season, this similar system that the Swiss use to select their Olympic team now sees 4 women's teams in the Top 25 and 2 men's teams in the Top 20 to start next year.

It drives competition to improve. If the goal is now to post results all season, then teams will push each other and be forced to work harder at it.

Organic growth, not requiring millions of dollars of funding.



Gerry,

While I agree with needing to encourage teams to play, I really hate the idea that you don't have to actually win an event to qualify for the Worlds. Theoretically a team could qualify in a few Canadian events get 4th at Nationals and boom they are headed to the Worlds. I don't think the spot should be given based on these points.

Why not give funding based on the points? This encourages teams to play in more events to gain National funding to better themselves. This encourages the teams that want to improve and really want to represent the US to play in more events.

My team this year for example wasn't only chasing a Pretrials spot, but also the funding that we could possibly obtain. We put the money and time in so we could be rewarded.

I think this "proposal" is taking it one step too far. Don't qualify the team directly for the Worlds. Qualify them for the Nationals, maybe cut back on the number of teams or something to make it tougher to qualify for Nationals. Maybe if a team is running away in the points, give them some kind of advantage like to qualify for Worlds they need to be beaten twice in a row.

Hold the National event the year before the Worlds so the team can focus their efforts on coming to Canada, training, and preparing for the event.

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SmokeyJoe
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 77

Re: SWEEEP!

quote:
Originally posted by Alice
I still want to know EXACTLY what USOC demands for board governance and HP programs, especially to whom and how much funds are disbursed. The online out-of-date USCA financial reports are so vague to be nearly useless.


Here's a link to the most recent available annual report (2010-2011):

http://www.usacurl.org/usacurl//ima...rt2011_rev3.pdf

It is somewhat vague and out-of-date, as Alice suggests.

For the most recent available minutes from the annual members meeting (May 1 to May 2, 2010):

http://www.usacurl.org/goodcurling/...10-%20final.pdf

So you can't rely on the USCA for current information. It looks like you need to contact your local representative, and rely on their memory for current information.

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