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Three
Swing Artist

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 251

Re: Re: 2017 Players' Championship

quote:
Originally posted by On The Nose

Hardly the 'biggest event of the year'... Despite some top teams being there, it's really mainly a made-for-tv event. After the World Championships, this is definitely an anti-climax.
It's overkill. Really, the season should rightfully end with the World Championships.



I'll agree after the World's it is anti-climatic. However almost all (not some) of the top teams are in Toronto. Instead of watching Homan and Gushue smash through a bunch of non-elite teams in matches that were mostly over early because of a huge disparity in talent, the Player's will have way better curling on display...just not as much drama. I for one am happy with the Player's and the Champion's Cup being on the schedule. Like dessert after the main course.

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Old Post 04-11-17 05:04PM
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CurlingGeek
Swing Artist

Registered: Apr 2011
Location:
Posts: 204

Thanks to the Ryerson Varsity Curling Teams for once again volunteering to share the non-televised games from the Player's. Coverage starts tonight at 7pm eastern, and we should have 4 or 5 sheets being shared.

https://games.curlinggeek.com/

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Old Post 04-11-17 06:39PM
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CURLER1
Drawmaster

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Brandon
Posts: 566

TSN Coverage

Perhaps this has been mentioned, I did not read through the whole thread.

Last night I was checking the times on TSN coverage, that was starting Thursday on TSN.

Since I can't remember what I did 5 minutes ago, I just looked again now, and see no coverage at all.

Am I missing something?

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Old Post 04-11-17 09:56PM
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guido
Drawmaster

Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 857

Re: TSN Coverage

quote:
Originally posted by CURLER1
Perhaps this has been mentioned, I did not read through the whole thread.

Last night I was checking the times on TSN coverage, that was starting Thursday on TSN.

Since I can't remember what I did 5 minutes ago, I just looked again now, and see no coverage at all.

Am I missing something?

sportsnet
http://www.thegrandslamofcurling.co...ip-tv-schedule/

Last edited by guido on 04-11-17 at 10:01PM

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Old Post 04-11-17 09:59PM
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CURLER1
Drawmaster

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Brandon
Posts: 566

Cool Re: Re: TSN Coverage

quote:
Originally posted by guido
sportsnet



yes, thanks, I just remembered that as I hit enter.

Bad day all around - thanks!

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Old Post 04-11-17 10:02PM
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Donr
Hitting Paint

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Selkirk
Posts: 121

Gushue keeps on rolling

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Old Post 04-11-17 10:11PM
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Manitoba Legend
Supreme Champion!

Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Hovel of Fame
Posts: 10874

Won't be televised and probably not even geeked but this is the one non-Brier, Worlds or STOH game I've looked forward to all season.

Queen Jones vs. Empress Englot

43 yr old JJ, trying to come off the mat after a putrid performance at the Manitoba championships vs. the team that almost put the invulnerable Rachel Homan down @ STOH - did it twice, almost nipped RH in the golden game!

Early morning game btw - Jones is not really a quick starter at these events but she is a hard finisher - and all the medals have been awarded - the only thing left is for JJ to clean out the Player's til.

Also think Englot will use this tourney to evaluate her chances for next season. I suspect she's already been advised her team is Team Canada for next year's STOH - - - great story - only negated by Rachel Homan deciding she can multi-task STOH & Olympics (if she wins trials)

Also Englot being Team Canada gives Jones hope at Manitoba playdowns - and probably her final shot at a 6th Scotties title. Englot missing at Manitoba Scotties - that's one thing - Jones will still have to form up enough game to skate by Kerri Einarson or Shannon Birchard. . . . . if she does - she could have a slugger's chance at a Scotties without the powerful Homan unit - that's the one team Jones can no longer stand up to - too erratic and inconsistent even though Dawn, Kaitlyn and JJ herself can occasionally throw up the odd 88 to 92% games!

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Old Post 04-11-17 11:14PM
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jamcan
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2146

quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
Nothing upsets Three-Do more than people expressing their honest opinions!

Usually the hate is more profound - but Gerry's threat to pull cards if certain people exhibit profoundly disturbed behaviour has scared a few site rodents!



What threats legend? Haven't seen a single post from Gerry to that effect. Reads like more of your trollish behaviour every time someone dares to stand up to you.

As for honest opinions, why do you always run and hide behind Gerry everytime someone has a different opinion from yours and challenges you?

The only profoundly disturbing behaviour on this site is yours.

__________________
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Hunter S. Thompson

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Old Post 04-12-17 01:23AM
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guido
Drawmaster

Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 857

quote:
Originally posted by jamcan


What threats legend? Haven't seen a single post from Gerry to that effect. Reads like more of your trollish behaviour every time someone dares to stand up to you.

As for honest opinions, why do you always run and hide behind Gerry everytime someone has a different opinion from yours and challenges you?

The only profoundly disturbing behaviour on this site is yours.



This is a post I will agree with.

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Old Post 04-12-17 02:50AM
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On The Nose
Swing Artist

Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 357

Re: Re: Re: 2017 Players' Championship

quote:
Originally posted by Three

I'll agree after the World's it is anti-climatic. However almost all (not some) of the top teams are in Toronto.


'Almost all' is essentially the same as 'some'.
Sidorova, Moiseeva, Paetz, Fletscher, Carey are all not there. And that's only the women.

quote:
Originally posted by Three
Instead of watching Homan and Gushue smash through a bunch of non-elite teams in matches that were mostly over early because of a huge disparity in talent, the Player's will have way better curling on display...just not as much drama. I for one am happy with the Player's and the Champion's Cup being on the schedule. Like dessert after the main course.

That some - or even most - of the top teams are there doesn't really mean much. It doesn't mean that every team will be giving 100% to win the event.
It's like in tennis - everyone in Canada gets all excited if the top 10 or top 15 players are here for the 'Rogers Cup'. But the fact is that the majority of the top players don't give much of a damn about the Rogers Cup or any equivalent tournament - the only truly important tournaments to them are the 4 Majors which make up the Grand Slam. The same can be said of the Canadian Open in golf. It's quite common for top players to lose deliberately in the Rogers Cup or any equivalent tournament (after collecting their 'appearance money', because their name is used in the marketing to sell tickets) - but it's common for them to lose deliberately in these tournaments when they feel they want a rest, or, basically, if they have something better to do.

The way I see it, curling (actually, it seems to be mostly Sportsnet today) has created this artificial grouping of tournaments called the 'Grand Slam', which are made for TV events (the lack of live spectators is hard evidence of this), and has pushed it, marketing it as a series of tremendously important, 'must see' tournaments - just as Tennis Canada markets the Rogers Cup as a tremendously important tournament. It's just all part of the sell.
The truly important tournaments to the curlers (in no particular order) are the Worlds, the Olympics, the European Championships (and the qualifying tournaments to get to these bigger tournaments) - and for Canadian curlers, the Brier/Scotties, and the Regional and Provincial playdowns which lead to the Brier/Scotties.

Whether it's tennis, or golf, or curling, believing that assembling the top players (or teams) automatically means that there will be intensity, that every player/team will give 100%, and that the quality of play will be high, is a naive belief. It's like believing that Ford cars are the best cars because Ford tells you they are. People believe that these tournaments are big and important only because the marketing tells them so.

__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world’s opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

Last edited by On The Nose on 04-12-17 at 05:19AM

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Old Post 04-12-17 03:01AM
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Stoner
Drawmaster

Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 614

quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Breeze
Yeah the Russian Women's Championships were last week, after the Worlds. They determined the team to play the Worlds in a 2 team, best of 7 showdown in a hangar with no audience that they called the SuperCup. The top 2 men's teams were on adjacent ice for that, though it seems they took the skip of the loser as their alternate to Edmonton, but given their showing they could have taken anyone and not done worse.

Originally the plan was just for one of these SuperCups at the beginning of the season, but when Sidorova lost in September to Moiseeva, they scheduled a second one to happen before Worlds. They might not have done that if they realized Moiseeva was gonna win Europeans, but the decision was made before that was played. This Championship was a bit different though as they broke teams by their home clubs rather than national teams. For Sidorova representing Moscow, that merely meant they lost their alternate Alina Kovaleva for the tournament as she skipped Adamant 1 out of St Petersburg. Team Moiseeva was broken across 3 teams for the tournament, Moiseeva skipped Adamant 2, while her vice Vasileva played second for Kovaleva. The other 3 team members (Arsenkina, Guzieva, Portunova) joined up with Olga Zharkova representing Krasnodar. The final wound up with Zharkova beating Kovaleva 5-3, and Sidorova taking Moiseeva in the bronze game. Russian Curling had good feeds on youtube for some of these games, but you really need YouTube to do an autotranslate on the chat to decipher much of it...



I thought/knew they did things differently, just wasn't sure what exactly, it's pretty intensive, maybe it's that they don't have enough curler's to hold a proper nationals, or that's just their program, thanks. So are the nationals pretty much meaningless then?

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Old Post 04-12-17 04:15AM
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Stoner
Drawmaster

Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 614

So my picks yesterday were women: Homan and Muirhead. Men: Epping, De Cruz, Gushue. Had some losses, though they were tough picks.

My top 4 from each pool before yesterday are:

Womens pool A:

Homan
Flaxey
Tirinzoni
Scheidegger

Pool B

Sweeting
Muirhead
Jones
Hasselborg

Mens:

Pool A

Gushue
Morris
Carruthers
Koe to win a TB vs. McEwen

Pool B

Jacobs
Epping
Edin
Laycock


My early draw picks for women and men today:

Jones, Tirinzoni, Flaxey, Hasselborg. Morris, Epping, Edin, Carruthers, Jacobs.

Last edited by Stoner on 04-12-17 at 05:13AM

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Old Post 04-12-17 04:53AM
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Stoner
Drawmaster

Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 614

quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
Won't be televised and probably not even geeked but this is the one non-Brier, Worlds or STOH game I've looked forward to all season.

Queen Jones vs. Empress Englot

43 yr old JJ, trying to come off the mat after a putrid performance at the Manitoba championships vs. the team that almost put the invulnerable Rachel Homan down @ STOH - did it twice, almost nipped RH in the golden game!

Early morning game btw - Jones is not really a quick starter at these events but she is a hard finisher - and all the medals have been awarded - the only thing left is for JJ to clean out the Player's til.

Also think Englot will use this tourney to evaluate her chances for next season. I suspect she's already been advised her team is Team Canada for next year's STOH - - - great story - only negated by Rachel Homan deciding she can multi-task STOH & Olympics (if she wins trials)

Also Englot being Team Canada gives Jones hope at Manitoba playdowns - and probably her final shot at a 6th Scotties title. Englot missing at Manitoba Scotties - that's one thing - Jones will still have to form up enough game to skate by Kerri Einarson or Shannon Birchard. . . . . if she does - she could have a slugger's chance at a Scotties without the powerful Homan unit - that's the one team Jones can no longer stand up to - too erratic and inconsistent even though Dawn, Kaitlyn and JJ herself can occasionally throw up the odd 88 to 92% games!



You did know that they met in the Manitoba provincial playoffs this year right, with Englot winning 9-5.

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Old Post 04-12-17 04:58AM
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Stoner
Drawmaster

Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 614

So recapping the 1st draw for women, Homan had a pretty easy win over Wang, which was very expected since she's never lost to her, Sweeting eeked out a close one over Eve which was expected to be tight.

Men's recap, Gushe not missing a beat win another smashing win over Bottcher, Smith with a very impressive win over Epping, Laycock with a not totally surprising win over De Cruz, I just thought De Cruz might won since he has a better HTH, it looks like Dunstone is maybe already working out for Steve.

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Old Post 04-12-17 05:07AM
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Jeff Breeze
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Jul 2016
Location:
Posts: 19

Russian Championships

to Stoner...

It's not like the Russian Championships are meaningless, they still get the medals and awards of an end-of-the-season tournament, but there's nothing after for that group. (Not that Championship victories equal Worlds nominations elsewhere always either, just ask Team Jamie Sinclair). I think the right way to look at it is if you imagine that Canadian Provincials still operated by the hard and fast rules of residency, so that Homan would have had to find an Ontario based second and given up Joanne for those events and Brett Gallant was forced to lead a PEI team... but somehow the Scotties and Brier weren't the nominating force for Team Canada

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Old Post 04-12-17 09:21AM
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Three
Swing Artist

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 251

Re: Re: Re: Re: 2017 Players' Championship

quote:
Originally posted by On The Nose

'Almost all' is essentially the same as 'some'.
Sidorova, Moiseeva, Paetz, Fletscher, Carey are all not there. And that's only the women.


That some - or even most - of the top teams are there doesn't really mean much. It doesn't mean that every team will be giving 100% to win the event.
It's like in tennis - everyone in Canada gets all excited if the top 10 or top 15 players are here for the 'Rogers Cup'. But the fact is that the majority of the top players don't give much of a damn about the Rogers Cup or any equivalent tournament - the only truly important tournaments to them are the 4 Majors which make up the Grand Slam. The same can be said of the Canadian Open in golf. It's quite common for top players to lose deliberately in the Rogers Cup or any equivalent tournament (after collecting their 'appearance money', because their name is used in the marketing to sell tickets) - but it's common for them to lose deliberately in these tournaments when they feel they want a rest, or, basically, if they have something better to do.

The way I see it, curling (actually, it seems to be mostly Sportsnet today) has created this artificial grouping of tournaments called the 'Grand Slam', which are made for TV events (the lack of live spectators is hard evidence of this), and has pushed it, marketing it as a series of tremendously important, 'must see' tournaments - just as Tennis Canada markets the Rogers Cup as a tremendously important tournament. It's just all part of the sell.
The truly important tournaments to the curlers (in no particular order) are the Worlds, the Olympics, the European Championships (and the qualifying tournaments to get to these bigger tournaments) - and for Canadian curlers, the Brier/Scotties, and the Regional and Provincial playdowns which lead to the Brier/Scotties.

Whether it's tennis, or golf, or curling, believing that assembling the top players (or teams) automatically means that there will be intensity, that every player/team will give 100%, and that the quality of play will be high, is a naive belief. It's like believing that Ford cars are the best cars because Ford tells you they are. People believe that these tournaments are big and important only because the marketing tells them so.



Wow, if you think tennis and golf tours have any relation to how the curling tour works I think you are forgetting about the money. You are bang on about tennis/golf where the guy WAY WAY WAY down on the money list is still pulling in more than a million a year. In curling (after the Brier/Scotties) the Grand Slam titles have the biggest prizes (100k purse) and actually more OOM points available. Eyeballs on jerseys is how the teams sell spots on their jersey's. The more times they are on television the more than can try to charge a sponsor. A team like Scheidegger made their entire season by winning a Slam. Granted not all the best teams even tour (McCarville/Menard) but for those that do tour winning a Slam helps the coffers greatly. It is easy to dismiss the Grand Slam series as something the players don't care about but I believe you are wrong. The fact that almost all the invitations are accepted to the Slams tells me that teams care about either the money/points/exposure. I can absolutely guarantee laycock/morris are very keen on doing well to try to get into the ROTR directly (as is Fleury). The teams sponsored by their national sporting bodies probably don't care as much about the Slams (they often are the ones declining invitations) but for the ones that take time off their real jobs to attend they care, for the ones that are "professinoal curlers" they also care greatly.

I for one think the quality of play of an average Slam game is higher than that of an average Brier/Scotties game. When there are no bottom feeding provinces/territories around each win is that much more critical. Playing only 8 ends makes the game faster and the five rock rule is great.

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Old Post 04-12-17 09:23AM
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Stoner
Drawmaster

Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 614

So I got all my morning picks right, except Fleury beat Hasselborg, what a good win for her.

Here are my picks for the rest of the day's womens games: Sweeting, Muirhead, Fleury, Tirinzoni, Scheidegger and Homan.

Too bad the games are not viewable until tomorrow.

Englot was no match for Jones, 8-1 over after only 5 ends, the other games went pretty easy too.

Last edited by Stoner on 04-12-17 at 12:43PM

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Old Post 04-12-17 12:34PM
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prairie guy
Hitting Paint

Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Southern Sask.
Posts: 171

I'm confused about the end of the Laycock - Epping game. The line score shows the 8th was blanked but the detail has Laycock laying 3 after 16 rocks. Can anyone clarify who won that game??

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Old Post 04-12-17 02:31PM
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nickelcity
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Jan 2014
Location: Sudbury, ON
Posts: 82

quote:
Originally posted by prairie guy
I'm confused about the end of the Laycock - Epping game. The line score shows the 8th was blanked but the detail has Laycock laying 3 after 16 rocks. Can anyone clarify who won that game??


Laycock did in fact score the 3 to win 6-4, as per the Slam website's latest article. It has been corrected on the scoreboard now.

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Old Post 04-12-17 02:36PM
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prairie guy
Hitting Paint

Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Southern Sask.
Posts: 171

Thumbs up

quote:
Originally posted by prairie guy
I'm confused about the end of the Laycock - Epping game. The line score shows the 8th was blanked but the detail has Laycock laying 3 after 16 rocks. Can anyone clarify who won that game??


I see it has just been changed to Laycock winning 2 seconds after I posted this

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Old Post 04-12-17 02:37PM
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Stoner
Drawmaster

Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 614

So I got Epping and Morris wrong. Tonight's picks: Jacobs, Gushue, Koe and Carruthers.

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Old Post 04-12-17 03:33PM
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On The Nose
Swing Artist

Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 357

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 2017 Players' Championship

quote:
Originally posted by Three


Wow, if you think tennis and golf tours have any relation to how the curling tour works I think you are forgetting about the money. You are bang on about tennis/golf where the guy WAY WAY WAY down on the money list is still pulling in more than a million a year. In curling (after the Brier/Scotties) the Grand Slam titles have the biggest prizes (100k purse) and actually more OOM points available. Eyeballs on jerseys is how the teams sell spots on their jersey's. The more times they are on television the more than can try to charge a sponsor. A team like Scheidegger made their entire season by winning a Slam. Granted not all the best teams even tour (McCarville/Menard) but for those that do tour winning a Slam helps the coffers greatly. It is easy to dismiss the Grand Slam series as something the players don't care about but I believe you are wrong. The fact that almost all the invitations are accepted to the Slams tells me that teams care about either the money/points/exposure. I can absolutely guarantee laycock/morris are very keen on doing well to try to get into the ROTR directly (as is Fleury). The teams sponsored by their national sporting bodies probably don't care as much about the Slams (they often are the ones declining invitations) but for the ones that take time off their real jobs to attend they care, for the ones that are "professinoal curlers" they also care greatly.

I for one think the quality of play of an average Slam game is higher than that of an average Brier/Scotties game. When there are no bottom feeding provinces/territories around each win is that much more critical. Playing only 8 ends makes the game faster and the five rock rule is great.


I think you're right about the sponsorship/exposure - the Grand Slam series does help sponsors get exposure, and so, as an inherent by-product, it helps teams get sponsors.
But you really can't compare the intensity and passion of the Brier/Scotties to the Grand Slam tournaments. That's what I meant in my comparison to tennis and golf.

I see the Grand Slams as an exhibition... similar in some ways to the Continental Cup in terms of importance. Sure, the players enjoy it because the atmosphere is more loose and relaxed than the Brier/Scotties, Worlds, or Olympics. And it's more relaxed because there is far less pressure (and so, much less intensity) in the Grand Slams than in those other tournaments. They can win some money and get some points in the Grand Slams... but there is far more intensity and passion at the Brier/Scotties/Worlds/Olympics than at the Grand Slams.

I still believe that the primary reason for the existence of the Grand Slam series is to make money for Sportsnet (and Pintys). The motivation for the players to play the Grand Slam series is money and points. Rogers (Sportsnet) clearly views it as a significant money making venture - and since they acquired it, they've messed around with the format, introducing new tournaments, tried novelties like Homan playing against the men, etc. This is far more like an experimental exhibition series than it is like pure curling.

Whereas the primary reason for the existence of the Brier/Scotties and the Worlds is tradition, the pride of representing your province/country, the pride of competing well.
Curling in the Olympics is still relatively new, and so there isn't the tradition of curling - but there is obviously the tradition and prestige of the Olympics (although the Olympics are definitely becoming more and more commercialized)... and there is the pride of representing your country, and of competing well.

__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world’s opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

Last edited by On The Nose on 04-12-17 at 11:32PM

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Old Post 04-12-17 10:55PM
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ellejay
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Mar 2014
Location: Red Deer Ab
Posts: 67

..whoa!..McEwen takes down koe 8-1, early handshakes..

..nice to see mike and the boys getting it together.

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Old Post 04-13-17 02:23AM
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Stoner
Drawmaster

Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 614

quote:
Originally posted by ellejay
..whoa!..McEwen takes down koe 8-1, early handshakes..

..nice to see mike and the boys getting it together.



Yes, I must say that was a bit of a surprise, Koe usually wins their meetings.

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Old Post 04-13-17 03:15AM
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Stoner
Drawmaster

Registered: Mar 2013
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Posts: 614

So as far as my picks go I got all the women right last night, the men are proving more difficult with Bottcher getting a big win over Carruthers and Koe losing to McEwen. Form the earlier draw I thought Morris would beat Koe as he had won their last few, Lacock beating Epping wasn't much of a surprise, thought it would be close, I just gave Epping the edge.

Tomorrow morning's womens picks: Jones, Sweeting, Hasselborg, Tirinzoni, Flaxey.

Mens picks: Epping, McEwen, Gushue, Bottcher.

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Old Post 04-13-17 03:28AM
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