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M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
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Draw: 6 -- Mon, Mar 18 -- 7:00pm AT
Gagn/Mori Final
Rees/Ches (EE)
Sand/Crai Final
Gamb/Kalt (8)
Arms/Grif Final
Pete/Gall (7) Watch Live Curling!
Zhen/Piet Final
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Wasy/Koni Final
Jone/Lain (EE)
Wise/Smit 12  Final
Weag/Eppi (6)
Lott/Lott 12  Final
Bouc/Char (7)
Krev/Math Final
Whit/Whit (6)
M: Aberdeen International Curling Championship
Aberdeen, SCO
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Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 2:45pm GMT
Mouat Final
Shuster (7)
W: Biktrix Saskatchewan Senior Women's Curling Championship
Martensville, SK
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Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 3:00pm MT
Foster Final
Streifel (8) Watch Live Curling!
W: CCAA / Curling Canada College Championships
Sudbury, ON
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Draw: CF -- Sat, Mar 16 -- 2:30pm AT
Southern Alberta IoT Final
Concordia U (10)
UofA - Augustana Final
Humber College (10)
D: WCT Slovakia Mixed Doubles Cup II
Bratislava, SVK
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Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 12:00pm CET
Han/Zou Final
Paul/Paul (7)
Cihl/Mace Final
Yang/Tian 10  (6)
: NWTCA Mixed
Yellowknife, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 4 -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 10:00am MT
Delorey Final
Koe (5)
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02-22-17 02:14PM
biterbar is offline Click Here to See the Profile for biterbar Click here to Send biterbar a Private Message Find more posts by biterbar Add biterbar to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
biterbar
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quote:
Originally posted by curlky


Yep


So did you realize there are hundreds of junior curlers who all live within a short commute of each other so "finding 4 in the same basic area" is really quite easy to do here and in many other states?

And that if the HPP/USCA wanted to they could have quite a little feeder system for adult competitive curlers by sending in coaches and coach trainers to develop these curlers?

The kids are there, it is developing them and keeping them interested that is the trick.

I hope that the U-18 is the trick we need. Two weekends from now at the Milwaukee curling clubs new 5 sheet facility.

http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Curling/...Qualified-Teams

__________________
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02-22-17 02:54PM
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Alice
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What Three wrote is brilliant.

HPP thinks it can manufacture Canadian results by "shortcuts" as Three wrote. HPP uses Billy Bean baseball statistics to pick who they think can win with a touch of who'll look best for TV. However, in the end, the only results that matter are on-ice wins by skips and their teams who run out of time-outs for handholding and micromanaging from coaches.

Unless USCA figures a way to declare victory and move on to change its HPP strategy the odds are HPP has already decided which players to support and which to shut out of this year's Olympic Trials after playing Billy Ball with them for so many seasons. We'll all know by May 15 when USCA is supposed to announce if any teams get a "discretionary" invite to our Trials. Without a serious opportunity to compete by teams who might do very well at fall 2017 cashspiels, it's not "our" Trials. It's HPP staff's trials. And, it's certainly not following Stevens Act federal law on "right to compete".

It will be fun to see how USCA explains the sign-up-and-go womern's nationals this year under its reporting requirement to USOC to explain what it's doing to increase "participation" by women and other special groups Congress requires in quadrennial reports.

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02-22-17 03:42PM
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Three
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quote:
Originally posted by Alice
What Three wrote is brilliant.


Flattery will get you everywhere.

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02-22-17 03:57PM
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KiwiCurl
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Oct 2016
Location: Auckland
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Very interesting thread, and like others, I'd like to see US competitive curling thrive (like I'd like to see competitive curling everywhere thrive).

Re the 'HPP - self-formed teams' thing...here's a question for my American friends (looking at you here Ben Tucker)...

As a development pathway to support young players, the USA has a weapon that almost no other country has, and I've never heard about it being used for curling.

The NCAA.

Why is collegiate curling not a solid and growing thing in the US?

In particular, it would have to help with growing the pool of competitive women athletes.

If softball can be a huge women's collegiate sport, why not curling?

Hans

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02-22-17 04:44PM
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birvin
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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it's a thing: http://collegecurlingusa.org

Not yet a scholarship-level sport, more of a club-level sport with hopes and dreams for the future.

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02-22-17 04:54PM
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curlinglove
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Collegiate curling is a recreational club sport at schools in the US. Students among collegiate curling first learn to curl at this stage. For that reason, most young competitive curlers steer away from collegiate curling.

HPP junior teams. I think the program has caused resentment among young curlers toward HPP. My niece is involved in competitive youth curling. She and I know kids will root against the young HP teams at competitions. It seems, youth curlers outside the program want to see the HPP fail. One can argue the HPP has led youth teams outside the program to work harder in order to defeat HPP. Now, I can't decide whether I am for or against HPP self forming and funding junior teams. I do know one thing, they are just kids playing the sport they love, let's not forget that.

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02-22-17 05:13PM
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squireoh
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Curlinglove and birvin already mentioned there is collegiate curling in the US, but Kiwi specifically mentioned the NCAA. I think that has been left unaddressed.

While the NCAA doesn't sponsor curling, that doesn't mean it cannot in the future. But even if it did it would be a poor vehicle to develop curling. Its eligibility rules are such that any competitive junior curler who received sponsorship money would be ruled ineligible to compete collegiately. So the NCAA route would be barred to the competitive curler.

The NCAA works best for sports that follow the traditional American development pipeline, which is through schools. Curling doesn't follow the traditional American sporting pipeline, so the NCAA is not the best vehicle for developing curlers.

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02-22-17 09:51PM
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curlky
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quote:
Originally posted by biterbar

So did you realize there are hundreds of junior curlers who all live within a short commute of each other so "finding 4 in the same basic area" is really quite easy to do here and in many other states?

And that if the HPP/USCA wanted to they could have quite a little feeder system for adult competitive curlers by sending in coaches and coach trainers to develop these curlers?

The kids are there, it is developing them and keeping them interested that is the trick.

I hope that the U-18 is the trick we need. Two weekends from now at the Milwaukee curling clubs new 5 sheet facility.

http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Curling/...Qualified-Teams



Its this type of short sides answer that leads to ideas not complete solutions. I am fully aware that there are area that have a dense curling base. But those areas are not all that common. I think that around 50% of curling clubs in the US are arena based, and they dont have hundreds of curlers in a short area let alone hundreds of juniors.

I think it is awesome that junior curling is so strong in yoru area. I hope that some programs are put in place to help self formed teams from yoru area as well as others do better. But at this point, there are only something like 20K curlers in teh US, or something around 0.0006% of the US population. If you do the math, and only count the area of the largest 50 metropolitan areas in the US (so ignoring rural areas where there is sparce population) there is approximately 0.06 curlers per square mile. That means there is 1 curler per every 16 square miles in the US metropolitan areas. I hope you know that you are lucky to be in curling country, and realize the world exists outside of yoru area.

But I also hope that for areas where junior curling is not a very big thing, thought is also given on how to grow curling outside of the traditional curling hot beds.

As more of a snarky response, relying on your self formed junior teams from a very small geographically limited area has not led to US curling becoming a world power. I for one am willing to take a step back, consider old ways as well as new ones, and find out how to blend techniques, not treat fellow curlers like idiots who wouldnt understand that there are areas with lots of curlers.

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02-22-17 11:01PM
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dbsdbs
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Snarky? CurlKy posted that US curling clubs just do not have many junior curlers so finding 4 in the same area who can practice locally in not very likely. Biterbar simply replied with facts. So because his facts do not match your comments that makes HIM snarky? I am sure biterbar knows he is lucky to be living in curling country and the realizes that "the world exists outside his area" but I hope you realize that the world exists outside your area as well. There are lots of junior curlers who would love the opportunity to compete on a level playing field for national championships. Just because those kids are not in your area now does not mean they should not be given that chance. Nor does it mean that thought should not be given to how to grow curling outside of traditional curling hotbeds. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive.
You seem to accuse biterbar of treating fellow curlers like idiots. Take another look at your posts if that is what you are looking for. Snarky?? Really!

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02-23-17 01:49AM
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Grat
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Arena clubs may be a large percentage of the total number of clubs, but a very small percentage of the youth curling populations.

Arena curling is great for growing the sport and part of the long game. But it doesn't do much to develop junior curlers until those arena clubs take the plunge for dedicated ice. Due to cost and ice availability there is less youth curling in arena clubs, and those curlers can't play our practice (we're talking about practice) enough to play on the same level as kids from curling country.

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02-23-17 09:00AM
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biterbar
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I try to play nice with Curlky, I really do, but it's just not worth the effort. Curlers per square mile? Arena clubs? This has absolutely nothing to do with anything on the subject.

We have a nice population of junior curlers and the USCA/HPP needs to come up with a better system to develop them and keep them in the game.

Listen to Three.

Enough said.

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02-23-17 11:01AM
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curlky
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dbsdbs, my words about snarky were to say that MY response was snarky, and I acknowledge that. It was not to say that anything written to me was snarky. I also 100% acknowledge that there are dense areas of junior curlers. I am 100% fully aware that an arena club cannot truly develop juniors due to ice time.. I suppose I did not make my point very clear, or you guys focused on only parts (doesn't matter really which), so I will try again.

My point was there really aren’t many curlers in the US. There are pockets with huge amounts of curlers, and many more pockets without many curlers at all. A solution needs to be developed to help BOTH situations. In an area with lots of curlers, self-formed teams along with better coaching and clinics is probably the way to go in the long run. But for someone who is in a pocket without many curlers, it can be tough to find a self-formed team, and for that type of person, the appointed system would work much better. Hence the dilemma on what is the best path to proceed, since both situations are likely to need completely opposite solutions.

Look into how many junior teams go to playdowns in a region that is not a super dense pocket of curlers, its sad how few teams playdown. Go ahead and look into the GLCA and how many teams go to junior playdowns. It is easy to jump to a conclusion that the lack of teams playing down is a result of people being disheartened by the HPP formed and funded teams and no chance to win. But as a kid, I played tons of sports, knowing that at some point there would be teams that were far superior to mine. Never stopped me from trying ot get as far as I could. As a result, I look at the GLCA numbers being more that they cannot find enough kids to form those teams to begin with. I just want to make sure that people outside of the American Curling hotbeds know that things are far different in other areas of the country, and universal solutions needs to be developed.

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02-23-17 11:22AM
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RockDoc
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quote:
Originally posted by KiwiCurl


Why is collegiate curling not a solid and growing thing in the US?

In particular, it would have to help with growing the pool of competitive women athletes.

If softball can be a huge women's collegiate sport, why not curling?

Hans



Collegiate curling is indeed growing and thriving in the USA, especially but not limited to the Northeast. Our club is home to around 50 college curlers from 3-4 area institutions.

Things to know:

1. At least in the East (where the majority of college curling is happening now) about 90% of participants have never curled before going to college. So undergraduate students will typically have only 3-4 years of experience prior to graduating.

2. Curling is very, very unlikely to emerge as a NCAA sport, for many reasons, including but not limited to (a) the costs of compliance with NCAA rules for coaching staff, etc. (b) cost of traveling to, renting and/or building facilities, (c) need for newly added sports to significantly contribute to Title IX to provide opportunities for women athletes (curling is too small impact compared to larger team sports.) Colleges are very reluctant to add additional NCAA sports at this time because of associated costs and Title IX requirements, and curling will be very expensive with too little impact. I know this arena well, becuase I work at a small D-I institution, and or former AD and current hockey coach is a former curler to boot.

Having said that, curling is a thriving club sport at many colleges and universities. A good model for curling is collegiate rugby or sailing. These are strong, well-funded club sports (without the dead weight of NCAA regulations) that have robust national competition. Collegiate Curling is moving in that direction.

I'm not convinced at the moment that collegiate curling is going to be the future of competitive curlers in the US, because they typically start too late compared to junior curlers. But there are some very good, developing players at the collegiate level that have not curled previously.

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02-24-17 11:33AM
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bjacks217
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Michigan, United States
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quote:
Originally posted by curlky
dbsdbs, my words about snarky were to say that MY response was snarky, and I acknowledge that. It was not to say that anything written to me was snarky. I also 100% acknowledge that there are dense areas of junior curlers. I am 100% fully aware that an arena club cannot truly develop juniors due to ice time.. I suppose I did not make my point very clear, or you guys focused on only parts (doesn't matter really which), so I will try again.

My point was there really aren’t many curlers in the US. There are pockets with huge amounts of curlers, and many more pockets without many curlers at all. A solution needs to be developed to help BOTH situations. In an area with lots of curlers, self-formed teams along with better coaching and clinics is probably the way to go in the long run. But for someone who is in a pocket without many curlers, it can be tough to find a self-formed team, and for that type of person, the appointed system would work much better. Hence the dilemma on what is the best path to proceed, since both situations are likely to need completely opposite solutions.

Look into how many junior teams go to playdowns in a region that is not a super dense pocket of curlers, its sad how few teams playdown. Go ahead and look into the GLCA and how many teams go to junior playdowns. It is easy to jump to a conclusion that the lack of teams playing down is a result of people being disheartened by the HPP formed and funded teams and no chance to win. But as a kid, I played tons of sports, knowing that at some point there would be teams that were far superior to mine. Never stopped me from trying ot get as far as I could. As a result, I look at the GLCA numbers being more that they cannot find enough kids to form those teams to begin with. I just want to make sure that people outside of the American Curling hotbeds know that things are far different in other areas of the country, and universal solutions needs to be developed.



I am not picking sides or saying either of you is right or wrong. I do know that three, yes, three Junior Mens teams are coming out of the GLCA to play at the U-18 Nationals. Two GLCA Junior women's teams are going to the U-18 Nationals as well. This is exciting and I hope we can do all we can to keep these kids playing competitively for years to come.

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02-24-17 12:11PM
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MCC_PE
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Out of all the USCA regions, the GLCA had the most teams playdown for both the U18 men's and U18 women's events (five each). We're not as well represented at the U21 level, but give us time...

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02-24-17 11:21PM
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tuck
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Fallout from Nations (in this case, Junior Nationals)

The Board committee on competitions will have to address the play-in system for Juniors. Those in the East got to Sign Up And Go; while the rest of the nation had to play a regional.

I suspect Junior Berth Spiels are in the works already. I hope so.

Ben Tucker

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02-24-17 11:27PM
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AlanMacNeill
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Junior Berth spiels...great idea...

They should hold one in each region...

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02-25-17 12:59AM
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curlky
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quote:
Originally posted by bjacks217
I am not picking sides or saying either of you is right or wrong. I do know that three, yes, three Junior Mens teams are coming out of the GLCA to play at the U-18 Nationals. Two GLCA Junior women's teams are going to the U-18 Nationals as well. This is exciting and I hope we can do all we can to keep these kids playing competitively for years to come.


I am very aware that the GLCA has many fantastic curlers, that was not my intent, and I hope it was not taken that way. a quick question since you are up on that, is how many teams played down to produce those 3 and 2 teams? ANd how were the playdown numbes for u21? I think it was around 2 or 3 yeas ago that there were only 2 glca junior womens teams that playdowned for the birth in nationals.

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02-25-17 01:06AM
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averagecurler
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This year there were 5 men's teams and 5 women's teams at U-18 playdowns in the GLCA. In previous years there have been at most 3 junior teams entered per gender. There are a couple of clubs with solid junior programs and others in the region are continuing to get a start. Look for more teams and a little more depth out of the GLCA in coming years.

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03-09-17 03:05PM
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mattrhames
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quote:
[i] Who is the best coach in America? Easy. John Shuster. [/B]


FWIW, I don't disagree with this. He's a smart player, and makes people better.

That said, coaches can help. They are there for a bunch of reasons, some that are obvious, some that are not. Having gone to a worlds as a "coach" (I put that in quotes because really, I wasn't, though I am more and more familiar with it) here are the obvious things a coach does:

1. Comes out at a timeout.
2. Scouts the competition in advance of the tournament. Watches tendencies. Quebec will not win the Brier, but if they did, you'll want to force inturns. Where else is there a tendency you can exploit?
3. Rocks. The coach should have the rock book from USA curling. The coach should scout the other sheets to see if the teams are throwing the rocks in the order of the rock book – to start. If there are changes, they should be noted. None of this scouting is on players ince they are watching the rocks of their counterpart to see about changes. You never lose a game because you didn't have hammer in 1. You can lose a game if you throw a bad rock in 1.
4. Schedule. This is where you're eating. This is what you're eating. This is bed time. This is drive to rink time. The players have a lot of decisions to make on the ice, they don't need to decide where to eat or at what time.
5. Ice changes. What is the speed like when you're the only game out there? What is the speed like when the barn is full? Empty? What is the speed like on all sheets late in games? (This is critical for the early part of the draw. Coaches have the luxury of watching other games. Players don't. They need to stay hyper focused on the sheet.
6. Team dynamics. The coach should know the styles of the players. What do they need when there is a miss? (Even if you play 90%, you miss two shots a game.) The coach can remind players of how to lift their teammate. This is a post game conversation.
7. Rocks. They are so important, it is on this list twice.

There are probablt more things, but I'm working.

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Curling Scores

M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 6 -- Mon, Mar 18 -- 7:00pm AT
Gagn/Mori Final
Rees/Ches (EE)
Sand/Crai Final
Gamb/Kalt (8)
Arms/Grif Final
Pete/Gall (7) Watch Live Curling!
Zhen/Piet Final
Gion/Desj (7)
Wasy/Koni Final
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Aberdeen, SCO
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Draw: CF -- Sun, Mar 17 -- 2:45pm GMT
Mouat Final
Shuster (7)
D: WCT Slovakia Mixed Doubles Cup II
Bratislava, SVK
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Han/Zou Final
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Yang/Tian 10  (6)
: NWTCA Mixed
Yellowknife, NT
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