Like CurlingZone on Facebook
 
 
   
Welcome to CurlingZone, Guest!   Register Now!    
Already a member?   Login:              Forgot Password?
ProCurlingWear - Look & Play Like a Pro
Travel Annex: Where Go, Stay and Eat!
Disclaimer: CurlingZone does not represent or endorse the accuracy or reliability of any Content posted on any Forums area and you acknowledge that any reliance upon such Content shall be at your sole risk. Any Content placed on any Forums area by users and anonymous posters are the views of the user posting the statement, and do not represent the views of CurlingZone or our partners, advertisers or sponsors. By posting anonymously, you are allowing your IP address to be displayed for identification purposes. CurlingZone reserves the right to remove any post at its discretion without warning or explanation.
  Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Post A Reply
wickedpixel
Knee-Slider

Registered: Mar 2012
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 4

USCA rules question - double touch

It was mentioned by an official at a USCA event earlier this year that "double-touching" during delivery was no longer illegal (releasing the rock then touching it again before it crosses the hog line).
I don't see anything in the rule book regarding this and in fact, as the rules read, this would still be considered a burned rock: "(a) Between the tee line at the delivering end and the hog line at the playing end:
(i) If a moving stone is touched, or is caused to be touched, by the team to which it belongs, or by its equipment, the touched stone is removed from play immediately by that team."

No exception seems to be made for the deliverer of the stone. Can someone provide clarification?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-06-13 05:05PM
wickedpixel is offline Click Here to See the Profile for wickedpixel Click here to Send wickedpixel a Private Message Visit wickedpixel's homepage! Find more posts by wickedpixel Add wickedpixel to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
SPMFromPCC
Swing Artist

Registered: Jun 2007
Location:
Posts: 430

Because it's hazy and not clearly defined whether that same rule applies to the thrower, it's largely open for interpretation by the officials. I suppose it depends on where you define the stone as "moving". Is it immediately upon release by the thrower, or is it once it crosses the near hog line?

I guess I didn't really provide clarification, did I.....

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-06-13 05:09PM
SPMFromPCC is offline Click Here to See the Profile for SPMFromPCC Click here to Send SPMFromPCC a Private Message Find more posts by SPMFromPCC Add SPMFromPCC to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
decade
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 1314

I haven't officiated in CAN for 4 yrs but the last time we were told by the head official to ignore any double touches. Now that most major event have electronic hog lines and minor events don't use officials, it seems that this is no an ex-rule no matter what is in the book.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-06-13 08:50PM
decade is offline Click Here to See the Profile for decade Click here to Send decade a Private Message Find more posts by decade Add decade to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
AlanMacNeill
Drawmaster

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 841

So, as with all things official....

(this is my understanding only, not an official position of anyone, I don't have authority to speak for anyone at any time on anything curling related...I'm just a hopefully soon certified level 2...waiting for the paperwork to come back)

We are instructed in our training, our pre spiel briefs, and just about everyplace else to give the benefit of the doubt to the players, and not to interfere in other than clear infractions...if there is any doubt, we are to let it go (although keeping a watchful eye to see if a pattern has developed, and if the line gets pushed too far...).

Since there aren't hog line judges on 99% of deliveries at sensor handle competitions, there isn't anyone who is in a good position to see a "double tap"...the on ice officials are behind the shooter, or in front of them at the other end of the ice. Even if there are hog line judges at a competitive spiel, they're watching with laserlike focus on the hog line, not what goes on before then...they are also usually watching multiple sheets at a time as well.

So, it would be on the opposing skip to protest...and as they would (likely) be at the other end of the ice, they are also in a bad place to see accurately.

As such....it's almost never going to get called.

From a "Yeah, I get that...but is it *legal*?" perspective...there is a hole in the rules...the implication of the "You must release by the Hog line" is that the delivering curler gets to maintain control of the stone up until a millimeter short of the hog line if they wish...the intent of the "Touch is not allowed" rule is to prevent sweeper interference (purposeful or inadvertent) with a running stone.

I would argue (and have had other officials argue as well) that since the "no touching" rule is not in with the delivery rule, that the rules regarding delivery take priority over the no touch rule with regards to actions allowed or not during delivery, and since the shooter is entitled to control the stone through to the hog line, a "double tap" is not something that we should be concerned with.

The technology of the sensor handles is in line with this as well, as they just sense if someone is touching the stone at hog cross, not how many times someone has touched and released it while in motion past the T (good luck programming a sensor to do that...)

Again, that is NOT an official ruling, just what someone who acts as an official would think if confronted with the question.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-12-13 09:22AM
AlanMacNeill is offline Click Here to See the Profile for AlanMacNeill Click here to Send AlanMacNeill a Private Message Find more posts by AlanMacNeill Add AlanMacNeill to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
mgulseth
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Apr 2009
Location:
Posts: 22

If the rulebook is vague or has a gray area, let's use some common sense. Is there really any advantage to double touching a rock? What unfair advantage is the other team gaining from doing this? I don't care if a team is doing cartwheels up until the hogline, as long as they release the rock when they are supposed to.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-13-13 10:37AM
mgulseth is offline Click Here to See the Profile for mgulseth Click here to Send mgulseth a Private Message Find more posts by mgulseth Add mgulseth to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Second
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Sep 2006
Location: Ontario
Posts: 27

My understanding is, as long as it's part of the player's regular delivery, it's legal. Since you don't know if a player "adjusts" their grip during delivery on a regular basis, it's not against the rules.

__________________
Skips can't sweep!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-13-13 12:26PM
Second is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Second Click here to Send Second a Private Message Find more posts by Second Add Second to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
SmokeyJoe
Hitting Paint

Registered: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 119

quote:
Originally posted by mgulseth
If the rulebook is vague or has a gray area, let's use some common sense. Is there really any advantage to double touching a rock? What unfair advantage is the other team gaining from doing this? I don't care if a team is doing cartwheels up until the hogline, as long as they release the rock when they are supposed to.


Totally agree with this

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-13-13 09:51PM
SmokeyJoe is offline Click Here to See the Profile for SmokeyJoe Find more posts by SmokeyJoe Add SmokeyJoe to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is . Post New Thread    Post A Reply
  Last Thread   Next Thread
Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread

Forum Jump:
Rate This Thread:

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
Eastern Time (ET)
Full Scoreboard  |  Play Fantasy Pick'em!  

MOST RECENT CZ FORUM POSTS

Ontario Curling
Gord Carroll Curling Classic Mixed Doubles
Curling Club Chat
Ladder formats
Rock Talk
Anything official out on broom rules for 2016-17? ( 1 2 )
Rock Talk
blue background
Rock Talk
Gord Carroll Curling Classic Mixed Doubles
Rock Talk
Russian Doping Scandal.... ( 1 2 )
BC Curling
Richmond CC - Monday Open Cash Ladder League Looking for Teams!
Rock Talk
2017 Canadian Mixed Doubles Championship returns to Nutana Club in Saskatoon
Rock Talk
A future superstar
Ontario Curling
OCT Fall Classic
Ontario Curling
Navy Fall Classic OCT Event
Manitoba Curling
Manitoba shuffle
Rock Talk
Canadian Mixed Doubles Olympic qualifying process now set
U.S.A. Curling
Changes to World Team Qualification
Ontario Curling
Last chance KW Summer Major League
U.S.A. Curling
Summer Ramblings 2016 ( 1 2 3 )
Rock Talk
Savill - cancer in remission
Rock Talk
Which skill is most important ( 1 2 )
Rock Talk
Hokkaido Bank Curling Classic
U.S.A. Curling
Interesting US Rules change inbound... ( 1 2 )
U.S.A. Curling
Seattle, WA PNW Mixed Doubles CCT Invitational
Women's Curling Tour
Looking for a team
Gear Zone/Classifieds
Curling Shoes to Recommend?
World Curling Tour
Shorty Jenkins Classic adds WFG as Presenting Sponsor
World Curling Tour
Vernon, BC Prestige Hotels & Resorts Classic
Junior Curling
Exciting Changes to Ontario Junior Curling Tour
Rock Talk
Elmwood Men's Commercial League in Winnipeg is looking for teams!
Saskatchewan Curling
Looking for Men`s competitve team. Regina area.
Rock Talk
WCF Sweeping Summit 2016 near Ottawa is underway ( 1 2 3 4 ... Last page )
Rock Talk
Glenn Howard as Tactical Coach
Rock Talk
Yorkton Visit
The Pit
Women's Hockey
The Pit
Partnership Opportunity
U.S.A. Curling
2018 Olympic Trials....Omaha...
Rock Talk
2017 Continental Cup of Curling Update
Rock Talk
Aye Carumba!
Rock Talk
montreal
Rock Talk
This could be interesting if they show curling events
Players/Teams Classifieds
BC Competitive Women's team seeks back end player
Asia-Pacific Curling
World Seniors
U.S.A. Curling
2016 TCOJC Registraion is Open
Rock Talk
KW Summer League
Players/Teams Classifieds
Get a jump on the season with KW Summer League
Rock Talk
Nolan Thiessen - Consultant
Rock Talk
Mary Fay walks away from curling ( 1 2 )
Rock Talk
New Format, New Event Championships
Rock Talk
Comentators on TSN, Rogers, and elsewhere
Manitoba Curling
Monday and Wednesday Night Spots at Fort Rouge !
Rock Talk
Memo to Russ! ( 1 2 )
Rock Talk
Anna Sidorova
Post New Message  |  View All Forums

FANTASY PICK'EM