Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 45

....in the Olympics...

Reasons. Look at third position. Jennifer's third is in tough with some of the great third out there today. Especially the non-canadian teams that are already guaranteed olympic berths cuz they are super teams in their own countries. Best exampe - Wang of China.

Now, even if Jenn slides by Lawton, Middaugh, Kelly Scott, King, Kleinbrink, etc. the usual suspects she'll be overwhelmed by the precision of the chinese and a couple other teams at the olympic level. Wang's team is technically superior to Jones team, anyone who disagrees should go back to curling 101. Now, no one has more heart than Jennifer Jones and her bigshot game is the best in the world. But up and down the lineup her percentages won't hold up against so called super teams. Even a couple Canadian teams will be able to knock her off in the Olympic playdown.

If you've watched enough Jones games you'll also notice that while Jennifer can pick up a big end with last rock she'll often give back the end the next end via some questionable strategy and being far too offensive vs. doing some defensive adjustments.

Jones has one of the best leads in curling, Dawn Askin, and 2nd player Jill Officer wil die for her skip out there and Officer is also a top shooter with great power takeout capability. Third Cathy O. is a liability, especially when it comes down to the precision thats required at Olympic or top canadian level..Finally, despite her great bigplay shot-making, Jennifer simply misses too many easier shots, early in games....

I'd still rate Jones and Scott as the Canadian favourites. However, if you put Jeanna Schraeder on Jones team you'd have your Canadian super squad for women......a spectacular shooter....but thats why they play the games and Jones/Schraeder have never played together (like Jones/Scott years back in juniors so its not gonna happen....

Canada will finish 1 to 4 at the Olympics. Kleinbrink, Scott have legit shots at Gold or Silver. Jones, King, Middaugh, Lawton will battle for bronze, at best......

Just my opinion. Feel free to discuss.

__________________
"An Old Legend of the West"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2003
Location: mb
Posts: 147

quote:

---

Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
....in the Olympics...

I'd still rate Jones and Scott as the Canadian favourites. However, if you put Jeanna Schraeder on Jones team you'd have your Canadian super squad for women......a spectacular shooter....but thats why they play the games and Jones/Schraeder have never played together (like Jones/Scott years back in juniors so its not gonna happen....

Canada will finish 1 to 4 at the Olympics. Kleinbrink, Scott have legit shots at Gold or Silver. Jones, King, Middaugh, Lawton will battle for bronze, at best......

Just my opinion. Feel free to discuss.

---

__________________
Whoever said that 1,000 monkeys on a 1,000 typewriters would eventually write shakespeare, has been proven wrong by the fora on here.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Omaha, Nebraska, USA
Posts: 1217

Murderers' row is what I call it.

Just a brief sample of what awaits....


Past Gold Medal Winners (Olympics)

Nordberg (SWE)


Past Silver Medal Winner (Olympics)
Ott (SUI)


Past Gold Medal Winners (worlds)
Nordberg (SWE)
Wang (CHN)
McCormick (USA)
Schoepp (GER)
Canada (depends upon the team) ???

Past Silver Medal Winners (worlds)
Jensen (DEN)


RUS and JPN aren't exactly gonna be pushovers either and have been improving over the years. GBR team has members with world and Olympic experience, but the skip might be a question mark.


Wang is the "wildcard" of sorts. Winning a worlds is one thing, but the the lights and specticle of the Olympics is another. If the team can handle the pressure, they'll be tough.



My Picks:

A-List

SWE
CAN
CHN

B-List

SUI
DEN
USA

C-list

GBR
JPN
RUS
GER

__________________
Visit The AKCA Website!!!
http://sites.google.com/site/aksarbencurlingclub/

Last edited by AK267 on 11-03-09 at 01:10AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 45

quote:

---

Originally posted by AK267
Murderers' row is what I call it.

Just a brief sample of what awaits....


Past Gold Medal Winners (Olympics)

Nordberg (SWE)


Past Silver Medal Winner (Olympics)
Ott (SUI)


Past Gold Medal Winners (worlds)
Nordberg (SWE)
Wang (CHN)
McCormick (USA)
Schoepp (GER)
Canada (depends upon the team) ???

Past Silver Medal Winners (worlds)
Jensen (DEN)


RUS and JPN aren't exactly gonna be pushovers either and have been improving over the years. GBR team has members with world and Olympic experience, but the skip might be a question mark.


Wang is the "wildcard" of sorts. Winning a worlds is one thing, but the the lights and specticle of the Olympics is another. If the team can handle the pressure, they'll be tough.



My Picks:

A-List

SWE
CAN
CHN

B-List

SUI
DEN
USA

C-list

GBR
JPN
RUS
GER

---

Good lists and even better analysis. Especially for an American!

Barring the unforeseen I don't see Debbie Deb, Schoepp or the Russian gals in the medal hunt. However, the Scots/England can be tough, they seem to be very resilient and one of the few teams that can win big games with reduced percentages.....sign of a fighting irish....so to speak...

The Jensen girls are my wildcards cuz they always seem to be there at the end of most events. They look aloof and distracted sometimes but no denying they can make a ton of shots, over and over and over again....
Norberg is off to a sluggish start to 2009 season but that actually works to her advantage. Don't wanna peak in November/December when the Olympics are months away.

Reasons I see Kleinbrink as a tougher out than Jen Jones is that Shannon's team is far more consistent from top to bottom and there's no doubt Shannon runs the team....in Jones case there's always squabbling between Jones and Cathy O., on some pretty basic strategies....

Jones is a better shooter than Shannon, but not by much. Maybe just on the super difficult shots. Kleinbrink is better on basic shots, especially in early ends. Jones has the stronger front end but sometimes I feel she doesn't deploy them to their maximum capabilities. Like before Kleinbrink has a slight advantage at third where Amy Nixon's touch game is usually stronger than Cathy Overton, who can curl 88% one game and 73% the next.

__________________
"An Old Legend of the West"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2004
Location:
Posts: 77

I really hope she represents Canada, she is really easy to look at! Good curler too. I wouldn't mind hiding my acorns in her garden man! :0)

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

Reasons I see Kleinbrink as a tougher out than Jen Jones is that Shannon's team is far more consistent from top to bottom and there's no doubt Shannon runs the team....in Jones case there's always squabbling between Jones and Cathy O., on some pretty basic strategies....

Look It's fine you don't like Jones or certain members of her team. But suggesting Kliebrink is more consistant then jones just makes you look like a fool!! Jones and her current team have won the following:

World Championship
2 canadian championships
3 players' championships
1 canada cup
Has won all the slams on the women's curling tour
finished 1st in the CTRS standings in 2 of the last 3 years. (which exemplifies consistency)
Her team has won several smaller bonspiels over the last 3 years.
And oh yes... the Jones team have won approx $300,000 over those years.

Now shannon and her current team, what have they won...
Alberta provincial title
Canada cup
her team finished 1st in the ctrs last year
1 slam win
smaller bonspiel wins.

You get my point???

Just in case you don't, lets compare the teams this year. The remarkably consistant kleibrink has entered two events: Hasn't qualified for the quarter-finals in either event and sits about 30ish on the money list; nowhere to be found in the ctrs.
Now for that inconsistant Jones team. they've been in three finals; won two of the them. They sit 1st in money and in the ctrs!!

I like shannon, she seems like a nice woman but the fact is her team cant even be mentioned in the same breath as Jones. They simply don't have the same experience!!!!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: 24.69.145.48

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

What I think is that Manitoba Legend has a pretty consistent theme in his/her posts. And that is:

Always slam Cathy Overton-Clapham.

I must have seen at least a dozen posts where you always take a cheap shot at Overton-Clapham.

Time and time again its: Jones is a great skip, has a great front end, blah-blah-blah, but that Overton-Clapham sure is a terrible third. Yeah, right. So terrible that this team are 3 time Canadian Champs and odds on favorite for Olympic gold.

Hmmm, what did she do to you? Sell you some flooring you no longer like? Beat you all the time when you played her? Turned you down for a date when she was single? Or are you just fantisizing about becoming Jones next 3rd?

Whatever it is, get over it. The woman's record speaks to her talent and ability for itself and is likely far greater than yours will ever be.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: 207.216.197.169

Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 45

quote:

---

Originally posted by Unregistered
What I think is that Manitoba Legend has a pretty consistent theme in his/her posts. And that is:

Always slam Cathy Overton-Clapham.

I must have seen at least a dozen posts where you always take a cheap shot at Overton-Clapham.

Time and time again its: Jones is a great skip, has a great front end, blah-blah-blah, but that Overton-Clapham sure is a terrible third. Yeah, right. So terrible that this team are 3 time Canadian Champs and odds on favorite for Olympic gold.

Hmmm, what did she do to you? Sell you some flooring you no longer like? Beat you all the time when you played her? Turned you down for a date when she was single? Or are you just fantisizing about becoming Jones next 3rd?

Whatever it is, get over it. The woman's record speaks to her talent and ability for itself and is likely far greater than yours will ever be.

---

__________________
"An Old Legend of the West"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Burlington
Posts: 118

Fortunately, or unfortunately for China, this isn’t figure skating and there are no points for style. If you can make a shot by sliding backwards and throwing between your legs it still counts! So it all comes down to shot making under pressure.

Jennifier is one tough chick, don’t let her looks deceive you…she has the mental toughness to go with the intelligence and curling ability to force things to happen.

When she made that great shot in the Scott’s a few years ago, if you remember, she was not curling well for most of that game, yet she pulled it together and made the shot that counted. She has more experience and more maturity now.

IMO when you get curlers (or any sport) together of this caliber the deciding factor will be the smartest and the toughest…..they can all throw stones.

I'm not putting any of the other curlers down....just saying that Jen is probably the best combination of all things at this time, ability, knowledge, maturity and experience.

Larry

__________________
Larry

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

quote:

---

Originally posted by Manitoba Legend


...But I'll tell you this, almost anyone worth their salt will state the two main weaknesses preventing Jones from winning more worlds or olympic gold are A. Weakness at third-shooting and B. To a lesser extent Jennifer's hyper aggressive strategy without the hammer.
Yes, Cathy O. has some great games. But far too many mediocre games, or 2 or 3 ends where she just costs the team points...

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: 207.216.197.169

Registered: Feb 2004
Location:
Posts: 135

Has won all the slams on the women's curling tour....

Unregistered, this point is incorrect, they have not won the Sobeys Slam, and in fact have failed to qualify in the 2 years of the award winning event, that takes place east of Winnipeg.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 45

One thing I want to make clear. Jennifer Jones and her team of heart 'n soulers is the best thing going in canadian women's curling. THey show that its not always the percentages that win games, its the try and the refusal to take defeat.
Jones is not only the top female curler in canada she's also the top female curling celebrity and pretty close to the top female sports celebrity as well.

Just stating the facts based on observing this team for many years that lots of their problems are caused by some questionable strategies and imprecise shooting at the third position.

Jones is head and shoulders the top female team in Manitoba and one of the 3 or 4 super teams in Canada. And if she somehow emerges thru the Olympic playdowns to the Olympics her games will be MUST WATCH TV.....far better than watching those cranky hacks called the Maple Leafs or Mike Kelly's disturbing emotional outbursts in the CFL...

One thing about Jones. She's the most exciting female curler in history. Well, maybe tied with Sandra Schmirler....

__________________
"An Old Legend of the West"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 192

Who really knows who will represent Canada in curling

What we do know ..

Martin will play Howard in the final and it is pretty much pocket Kings all in against pocket Aces..maybe a slight edge to Howard but I say its 50/50

On the womans' side Kelly Scott and Marie France Larouche get the nod from the pre trials and anyone else that squeezes in will not be a factor at the trials.

In the end

Jones / Kliebrink / Lawton/ Scott

My pick ..hoping for Lawton ...but I would pick Scott or Jones

I would have said kleibrink but they seem "out of sorts" this year...I will take them to win the Scott

In summary

Men....easy to predick
Woman ...a 4 team toss up.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2007
Location:
Posts: 25

quote:

---

Originally posted by Curl401
Who really knows who will represent Canada in curling

What we do know ..

Martin will play Howard in the final and it is pretty much pocket Kings all in against pocket Aces..maybe a slight edge to Howard but I say its 50/50

On the womans' side Kelly Scott and Marie France Larouche get the nod from the pre trials and anyone else that squeezes in will not be a factor at the trials.

In the end

Jones / Kliebrink / Lawton/ Scott

My pick ..hoping for Lawton ...but I would pick Scott or Jones

I would have said kleibrink but they seem "out of sorts" this year...I will take them to win the Scott

In summary

Men....easy to predick
Woman ...a 4 team toss up.

---

When can we play poker? You can have your 50% with Pocket Kings, I'll play my 50% on pocket Aces

On the Women's side there is so much parody in curling, that any number of teams could win it all. Jones is the best bet cause of her experience in sudden-death games, but anything can happen when you need to win 2-3 of these in a row.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 45

I'm in the Jones corner but have obvious concerns (well stated)....however canada will be will represented by Jones, Kleibrink, Lawton or K. Scott. these teams are the cream of the crop in women's curling......

Meanwhile on the mens side, Martin vs. Howard looms as the obvious matchup but Glenn is nearly 50 and sometimes wears down near the end of events.....Martin is a monster, a veritable curling machine but remember last year how the scots knocked him off, not once, not twice but three times in the worlds Thats gotta hurt big-time.....other wildcards in the men are Jeff Stoughton (big game hunter but seems terrified when playing curling giants like Martin or Howard), Bud Bundy (aka the defending olympic gold medallists from Newfoundland without Russ Howard calling the shots. Maybe one or two others, thats about it. And hopefully Mike Harris doesn't get himself into the mix.

All the womens teams are vulnerable to machines like China, Denmark, Sweden.... but in mens play Canada should be granted two Olympic spots, we are that dominant as long as we're repped by Howard or Martin.

__________________
"An Old Legend of the West"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2008
Location:
Posts: 89

quote:

---

Originally posted by Curl401
Martin will play Howard in the final and it is pretty much pocket Kings all in against pocket Aces..maybe a slight edge to Howard but I say its 50/50


Men....easy to predick
Woman ...a 4 team toss up.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 101

quote:

---

Originally posted by Curl401
Who really knows who will represent Canada in curling

What we do know ..

Martin will play Howard in the final and it is pretty much pocket Kings all in against pocket Aces..maybe a slight edge to Howard but I say its 50/50

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2007
Location: Bashaw
Posts: 340

Back to the curling......in regaurds to the women's trials, i see alot of it's down to Lawton, Jones, Scott and Kliebrink, but what about the other team that we know will be there, which is Cheryl Bernard? Now she hasn't really won much except wait all the money she takes home each year, but she is as consistant as they come, she herself would say she had a bad Scotties last year, but i still believe that she has a top notch third in Susan O.Connor and she herself if she get's hot can make all the shots! would i pick her to win it no but at the end of the week don't be surprised cause i won't when she is in the final and maybe in Vancouver......

.....with regaurds to the men's it's a two horse race but horses sometimes break legs.....so why are teams like Ferbey and Koe not even mentioned when they are both great teams, i like to think that they should both be put ahead of any team coming out of the pretrials, and Ferbey could be put ahead of even Martin or Howard.....but that is me playing Devil's Advocate because really if it's not a Martin/Howard final it will be a disappointment for all!

So Finally i see it unfoulding this was

Women: Final 4 (Jones, Kliebrink, Bernard, Scott....If King makes it she has been having great year and could see her knocking off one of these teams to make it)

Men: Final 4 (Martin, Howard, Ferbey, and really could be anyone who has a hot week and i look for two teams to be hot that week and they are: Koe and Ursel....if he makes it)

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 45

quote:

---

Originally posted by TLSBIRD
Back to the curling......in regaurds to the women's trials, i see alot of it's down to Lawton, Jones, Scott and Kliebrink, but what about the other team that we know will be there, which is Cheryl Bernard? Now she hasn't really won much except wait all the money she takes home each year, but she is as consistant as they come, she herself would say she had a bad Scotties last year, but i still believe that she has a top notch third in Susan O.Connor and she herself if she get's hot can make all the shots! would i pick her to win it no but at the end of the week don't be surprised cause i won't when she is in the final and maybe in Vancouver......

.....with regaurds to the men's it's a two horse race but horses sometimes break legs.....so why are teams like Ferbey and Koe not even mentioned when they are both great teams, i like to think that they should both be put ahead of any team coming out of the pretrials, and Ferbey could be put ahead of even Martin or Howard.....but that is me playing Devil's Advocate because really if it's not a Martin/Howard final it will be a disappointment for all!

So Finally i see it unfoulding this was

Women: Final 4 (Jones, Kliebrink, Bernard, Scott....If King makes it she has been having great year and could see her knocking off one of these teams to make it)

Men: Final 4 (Martin, Howard, Ferbey, and really could be anyone who has a hot week and i look for two teams to be hot that week and they are: Koe and Ursel....if he makes it)

---

__________________
"An Old Legend of the West"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Omaha, Nebraska, USA
Posts: 1217

hmmmmm.....wondering if the on-line betting sites have put up any odds yet

__________________
Visit The AKCA Website!!!
http://sites.google.com/site/aksarbencurlingclub/

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 45

quote:

---

Originally posted by AK267
hmmmmm.....wondering if the on-line betting sites have put up any odds yet

---

__________________
"An Old Legend of the West"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

quote:

---

Originally posted by Manitoba Legend


If they do, Martin and Howard will be overwhellming faves with no payout odds.

Only hope is picking a darkhorse. Stoughton would be my darkhorse, as long as he's 25-1 or worse....

In the ladies, none of the Fab 4 girls will be any better than 4-1. Jones might be the lead at 4-1, Kelly Scott at 5-1, Lawton at 7-1, Kleinbrink 6-1 and Bernard 10-1....all the others will come in at 15=1 or better.

---

I really do hope there is online betting.

Manitoba Legend: I suggest you put a few dollars on Marla Mallet and Jen Hanna. As you've suggested in previous posts, both will be real threats at the trials , and I couldn't agree more

Report this post to a moderator | IP: 24.69.145.48

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

"Koe is very good but I see his rink perhaps stretching themselves to get to the final 4 before bowing out." -Mb Legend

Well for starters Mr Big predictor..only 3 make the playoffs in the Trials!

You should call yourself Mb loser.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: 24.76.209.49

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

Hmm, replace Cathy to build a Canadian super team? Don't think that is the way it works. The Jones team was techically the best team at last years world (though they weren't the best Canadian team prior to the qualification final), and they went home without a medal, while the chinese played technically worse than in 2008 and won the title.

I'd guess Kleibrink might be a more solid team for an international championship tournament - despite the lack of "genius", but the team is currently not playing exceptionally well to be honest.

Well, any Canadian team will be a titles favourite, but what does that mean? You still have to make it to the final and win it, there is no guarantee for that even for a team that is playing in a league of its own - like Martin last year.

The natural international competition: Wang, Norberg, Jensen/Dupont and Ott, maybe Muirhead.

Wang have not their best season so far, and they nor any other chinese team ever went to the Olympics. They will struggle. Their main "feature" is their team cohesion, which can be broken under the pressure of the Olympics esp. in Canada.

Norberg is far from dominant, but her "old" team is once again up and she alone outranks most of the field in terms of the needed experience. Though, she will have no chance against a world class team that can turn its potential into practice.

Jensen/Dupont are always surprisingly great at Worlds, possibly too at the Olympics. They can beat any team in the world, but usually they don't ...

Ott on the other hand, being the strongest European team for a long period of time, often struggles at the worlds. She has more Olympic medals - 2 - than the rest. And all she needs is Gold.

Muirhead will win Gold - if she makes it to the final and meets the chinese team there. Otherwise, she wont.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: 89.246.180.218

Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 45

quote:

---

Originally posted by Unregistered
Hmm, replace Cathy to build a Canadian super team? Don't think that is the way it works. The Jones team was techically the best team at last years world (though they weren't the best Canadian team prior to the qualification final), and they went home without a medal, while the chinese played technically worse than in 2008 and won the title.

I'd guess Kleibrink might be a more solid team for an international championship tournament - despite the lack of "genius", but the team is currently not playing exceptionally well to be honest.

Well, any Canadian team will be a titles favourite, but what does that mean? You still have to make it to the final and win it, there is no guarantee for that even for a team that is playing in a league of its own - like Martin last year.

The natural international competition: Wang, Norberg, Jensen/Dupont and Ott, maybe Muirhead.

Wang have not their best season so far, and they nor any other chinese team ever went to the Olympics. They will struggle. Their main "feature" is their team cohesion, which can be broken under the pressure of the Olympics esp. in Canada.

Norberg is far from dominant, but her "old" team is once again up and she alone outranks most of the field in terms of the needed experience. Though, she will have no chance against a world class team that can turn its potential into practice.

Jensen/Dupont are always surprisingly great at Worlds, possibly too at the Olympics. They can beat any team in the world, but usually they don't ...

Ott on the other hand, being the strongest European team for a long period of time, often struggles at the worlds. She has more Olympic medals - 2 - than the rest. And all she needs is Gold.

Muirhead will win Gold - if she makes it to the final and meets the chinese team there. Otherwise, she wont.

---

__________________
"An Old Legend of the West"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged