Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Cornwall,Canada
Posts: 1212

You are leading 3-2 in the 5th of 10 ends. You are shooting YELLOW. You have hammer, and it is your fourth rock of the end. The ice has 4 feet of curl.

Come Around -- Draw Around Red 1 guard again
Hit and Roll Right -- Hit and Roll off of Red 4
Hit and Roll Left -- Hit and Roll off of Red 3
Split it -- Split the House drawing to the left eight foot

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Peel the center guard. Only rock that can get you in trouble.

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Are you an aggressive or defensive team?

Defensive - peel the guard

Aggressive - hit and roll, split. Am not liking the draw around as too close to your shot rock making it easy to set up a double - draw around shot rock better but still easy double set up.

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Registered: Oct 2009
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That Red 4 is very dangerous with that guard on top. Hitting the 4 with the guard in place either sets up a double or puts you behind the t line. both bad results

I kinda like pealing the guard. keep it open. if after you peal they hit and stick on your yellow, just hit and roll to the outside. either behind the 4 or on top of the 3. Now you have a chance at 2 and the middle is open to get one.

Also the 1 and 4 reds are set up to cross double them giving you a chance at blanking the end later if desired later.

Just remember that you are up one with hammer... scoring one point isn't a bad outcome.... puts you up by two. Just don't let them steal

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Last edited by CeKa on 10-22-09 at 04:03PM

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary
Posts: 512

Peeling the centre guard is rediculous. If it was the last end, then definitely, but it's only the 5th end and way too early to start "hanging on for the win".

The title of this post "Halfway Defence" is also misleading ... this is the perfect chance to go on the offencive and get 2 or 3 and basically win the game.

1. Is the ice curling lots? Then freeze to your own ... ONLY a good option if you know you can curl enough to get under cover and not set up a double.

2. Is the ice curling normal or even a little straight? You might want to try coming around the outside of the guard, into the 4 foot, just past your other rock. No double, sitting two and your opponent has no hit and roll behind cover. Don't come up short though, or there'll be an easy double.

3. The hit and roll off the number 3 rock is a nice safe call regardless of the situation. So if you're feeling unsure, then go for that shot. If you make the roll you're in position A. If you just hit and stick you're doing ok as well, but you leave the door open for your opponent to make a nice hit and roll behind cover.

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calgary
Posts: 46

If the ice is curling 4 feet, the come around freeze to your own is the shot. Peeling the guard will almost guarantee that you will get forced to 1 (unless you make multiple doubles, or the other team screws up), and to try and hit and roll in from the wings is difficult and could leave an easier shot for your opponent. Even a half decent draw will put a lot of pressure on the other team. Do they play a soft shot and risk giving up a huge end? Do they peel their own guard, and let you reguard it? The 5th end is way too early to start playing defensive, and on the plus side you stand a very good chance of cracking a 2 or a 3.

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Registered: Dec 2005
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you never ever ever peel the centre guard. that has a horrendous call. you are only one up. go for the game just now and come around or hit and roll if you are feeling a bit defensive

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Split the house

I'm not worried too much about the guard yet, and don't want to set up any posibility of the runback double. I want to make sure I'm to the T line or behind it though, to take away their hit and roll.

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This thread was asking for a halfway defensive call... Defensive mean playing it safe and not allowing a steal. Offensive mean playing a little more risky so you can score multiple... The peal is the safe(defensive) call that still allows you to freeze or come around the outside stones and get two... sounds like a halfway defensive call to me, with little chance of a steal...

Everyone knows playing defensively isn't going to score you big ends...

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary
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Never peel the centre gaurd in this situation ... Defensive doesn't mean play stupid. You'll end up drawing or hitting against 2 or 3 at the end ... always a chance you'll give up a steal.

I agree with Viich that you can split the house and draw the play away from the centre. The other "safe" call is to hit the 3 rock and stay right there. Either way they have to hit the open rock OR try a freeze ... if they miss the freeze in the slightest they're in real trouble. If they make the freeze perfect, then you can peel the gaurd if you want to be really conservative ... although I'd probably freeze again and say "Game On!"

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Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:

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Originally posted by ObsessiveCurler
You are leading 3-2 in the 5th of 10 ends. You are shooting YELLOW. You have hammer, and it is your fourth rock of the end. The ice has 4 feet of curl.

Come Around -- Draw Around Red 1 guard again
Hit and Roll Right -- Hit and Roll off of Red 4
Hit and Roll Left -- Hit and Roll off of Red 3
Split it -- Split the House drawing to the left eight foot

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Registered: Jul 2002
Location: Lotus Land
Posts: 2390

quote:

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Originally posted by Guest

Did you lose a club game recently on this shot?

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Registered: Oct 2009
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And how did they play the end? and what was the outcome?

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Registered: Sep 2003
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FINLAND decided to Hit and Roll Right off the Red 4. They ended up rolling out. USA stole 1 in that 5th end and ended up winning 6-5

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Registered: Jun 2007
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I kinda like drawing tee-line behind the Red 4, or corner freezing to the Red 3. Both leave you sitting two with no doubles available, and tough shots to remove either yellow.

Leaving the center guard there is dangerous if the team doesn't execute, but at Worlds I think you're expected to execute. You might goad the other team into trying to freeze on your shot stone in the 4-foot; you freeze to them, and suddenly you have three stones in the house with hammer. Sweaty situation for red.

That's my take from the outside. If I were calling a game with this situation it would depend on a lot of things, naturally.

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assume that you are being outplayed - take gloves off and concede

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Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Ottawa Curling Club, literally
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Those rings are way off. The four foot is as wide as the 8 and 12 foot? what?

Anyways, I would hit and roll in a little on #3 to sit 2.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Milton, Ontario
Posts: 1102

In this situation i'm playing the comearound all day. Ideal spot is just biting the 8 foot directly behind the guard. Gives you a very good opportunity at setting up a two or three while keeping the pressure high on the other team.

If you hit one of the outside stones, the red team will just play the comearound freeze giving them an opportunity to set up a steal, or at the very least cut down your scoring area for a deuce.

Ripping the guard would be the call in the last end, but in the 5th end of a close game it's way too early. If you rip, they hit your shot stone making a force very likely. If they come back with a deuce in 6 they take control of the game.

On straight ice, hitting one of the outside rocks may be the better call, however with four feet of curl, the comearound is the only option to play here.

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Registered: Feb 2009
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Check the results.
The majority have made the best call. Draw around.
Defense does not win games. Scoring points wins games.

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: New Westminster
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Blindly playing by the stats and assuming both teams are probably average club level teams, I'd probably come around the centre again.

If you're playing against someone that will make the runback 9/10 times and assuming you're a top executing team as well, I think you need to look elsewhere because this bunches all your rocks together making them easier to remove with one shot.

So in that situation I'd place it biting the 8 foot angled infront of the #4 red. It takes away the in-off off othe red and makes it steeper and thus more difficult.
Plus, even if they make the new in-off the shot you just threw should stick in the rings somewhere likely leaving them only sitting one.

It also gives you a rock that you can raise into the rings if they bury one in the back of the four foot or even if they make an imperfect freeze to your shot stone.

Lastly, even if they freeze perfectly you still have two options, draw to the four foot on the right side, or raise the stone you placed on the left side.

They could also try to slash your just thrown stone to make the double but they'll roll out leaving you an in-off to roll behind the guard again and reduce how many rocks they have play and bunch them back together so you can bail-out and blank towards the end of the end if necessary.

That's all assuming offensive playing style.


I curious to read how people would respond to a rock angled in front of #4.

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Registered: Nov 2005
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This situation shows the difficulty in coming up with an answer solely based on where the rocks are placed. The ability of both teams can often dictate the call rater than rock placemant. If you are playing against Kevin Martin, the come around draw can get you in a lot of trouble. Our team would peel the guard and be quite happy getting one point to go 2 up after 5 ends.

If we are playing a much weaker team, the come around would be the shot as we would try to put the opponent out of their misery early.

The other thing to keep in mind is the fact that both teams are not likely to make all their shots for the rest of the end. Strategy based on perfect execution can get you in lots of trouble when you miss a shot. The come around looks like the shot but there is no good pro side miss when playing that come around.

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary
Posts: 512

My old curling coach use to tell us this:

"Usually there are 2 or 3 good shots out there. You don't necessarily have to call the same shot that I would have, just as long as you're playing a shot in the top 2 or 3. As soon as I see you miss out on one of the top 3 plays, you're going to hear about it after the game."

In my mind you have an excellent chance to get your deuce here and given that it's only the 5th end you should take it (way too early to start trying to run the other team outta rocks). You can play any shot you want here as long as the end result see you sitting 2. Sure some would be aggressive and play the come around, others would hit to sit 2 and still others would draw to the side to sit 2. All good options.

Peeling the guard is about the worst call you could make in this situation, and my old curling coach would have been swatting me over the head after the game for that call.

If you're afraid to play the game with any sort of a centre guard up when you have hammer then you're going to be afraid a lot of the time. Try playing to win, instead of playing to "not lose".

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Registered: Nov 2005
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Your old curling coach probably also said to keep the center open when you have the lead and the hammer.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Milton, Ontario
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quote:

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Originally posted by tubby
Your old curling coach probably also said to keep the center open when you have the lead and the hammer.

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Burlington
Posts: 118

I like the draw down to corner freeze on three parallel to the shot rock leaving you sitting two with no double. With 4 feet of curling shot rock can be gotten to with hack weight.

Second option is to draw to the centerline.....top eight.

Larry

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